Civil Marriage vs. Religious Marriage (moral, tradition, beliefs, homosexuality)

[Green Gaia]

My question is simple: why do some who restrict access to their religious marriage try to force this restriction on civil marriage as well, thus effecting everyone? What justification do they/you have for this?

I understand each religion has it's own rules and I agree they should be allowed them. However, I don't understand why some of those religions wish to force their rules of marriage into civil law, thereby forcing everyone to follow the rules of their religion in regards to marriage. Do they really think their God cares about who gets a piece of paper from the court house? Isn't their God more concerned with the religious ceremony of marriage?

And, yes I'm speaking of same gender couples being denied civil marriage rights.

Note: this is NOT a thread about homosexuality, let's not go down that path again.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Maize

My question is simple: why do some who restrict access to their religious marriage try to force this restriction on civil marriage as well, thus effecting everyone? What justification do they/you have for this?

I understand each religion has it's own rules and I agree they should be allowed them. However, I don't understand why some of those religions wish to force their rules of marriage into civil law, thereby forcing everyone to follow the rules of their religion in regards to marriage. Do they really think their God cares about who gets a piece of paper from the court house? Isn't their God more concerned with the religious ceremony of marriage?

And, yes I'm speaking of same gender couples being denied civil marriage rights.

Note: this is NOT a thread about homosexuality, let's not go down that path again.

A good point; of course, as you know, as far as I am concerned there should be no dissent. In fact, from (my) Christian perspective, Religious marriages should be afforded to gays.

[Real Sorceror]

For many people, myself included, it is very difficult to seperate (mentally and socially) civil marriage from religious marriage. Especially here in the states, where marriage has a very different connotation. On issues where religion is involved, people will often let their emotions and beliefs cloud their judgement, and things like this happen. Not to mention that people in general are very opposed to change.

ps for the record, I am not against same-sex marriage.

[JMoum04]

Originally Posted by Maize

My question is simple: why do some who restrict access to their religious marriage try to force this restriction on civil marriage as well, thus effecting everyone? What justification do they/you have for this?

I understand each religion has it's own rules and I agree they should be allowed them. However, I don't understand why some of those religions wish to force their rules of marriage into civil law, thereby forcing everyone to follow the rules of their religion in regards to marriage. Do they really think their God cares about who gets a piece of paper from the court house? Isn't their God more concerned with the religious ceremony of marriage?

And, yes I'm speaking of same gender couples being denied civil marriage rights.

Note: this is NOT a thread about homosexuality, let's not go down that path again.

Well, to the religiously/morally conservative, the answer is yes and no. It's no in the sense that He probably doesn't care if there's a religious ceremony or not. However, it's yes in the sense that God cares about family since it's the most fundamental block of society. If the traditional family runs the risk of being "corrupted" in any way, shape or form, whether it's polygamy, divorce, or same sex marriage, then they're afraid that the "corruption" of society will soon follow. Since God cares about humanity on both an individual and societal level, he's not only going to care about the choices that we make that affect us as individuals, but the choices that we make that also could affect society as a whole.

Now I'm not going to get into a debate as to whether or not same sex marriage should be seen as a legitimate form of family or not, I'm just saying that that's the reasoning behind the more conservative people who are against such laws.

[Revasser]

I think the problem at least partly lies in the phenomenon of the "One True Religion".

Some people believe everyone should follow their religion's rules and regulations because they believe that their religion, despite buckets of different religions also making this claim, is the sole holder of "Truth" (with a capital T.)

And if the religion is "right" then all it's rules and taboos, no matter how quaint they may appear in a modern, pluralistic society or how nonsensical they seem to outsiders, must also be "right." Not just "right for them" but ultimately and objectively right. So obviously, if you've got the Truth, then everyone should see it and follow it. And what's the most expedient way of making everyone obey the "Truth" of your religion's rules?

Make it civil law.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by jmoum

If the traditional family runs the risk of being "corrupted" in any way, shape or form, whether it's polygamy, divorce, or same sex marriage, then they're afraid that the "corruption" of society will soon follow.

If that were true then they would be pushing for laws against divorce instead of singling out same gender couples for discrimination and denial of equal rights.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Revasser

I think the problem at least partly lies in the phenomenon of the "One True Religion".

Some people believe everyone should follow their religion's rules and regulations because they believe that their religion, despite buckets of different religions also making this claim, is the sole holder of "Truth" (with a capital T.)

That may work in a theocracy, but what I don't understand is why this is happening in a country that supposedly values religious freedom and tolerance.

[JMoum04]

Originally Posted by Maize

If that were true then they would be pushing for laws against divorce instead of singling out same gender couples for discrimination and denial of equal rights.

I see your point, until you take into consideration that in their minds, divorce is bad because it messes up the family, but same sex marriage is twice as bad cause not only does it mess up the family, but it's also a blatant sexual taboo. In there eyes, one wrong is bad, but two wrongs is a big no-no.

Besides, they do have things that try to keep families together, such as tax breaks for families, hefty costs for divorce court, etc. etc. Part of the problem though, is that society is a hell of a lot more open to the idea of divorce then it probably ever will be to homosexuality.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Real Sorceror

For many people, myself included, it is very difficult to seperate (mentally and socially) civil marriage from religious marriage.

It shouldn't be. Civil marriage is the piece of paper you get from the court house saying the state now recognizes your legal union. Religious marriage is ceremony performed at the church, or wherever, and has no bearing on the couple's legal status without that piece of paper. So, you can have one without the other, but most people don't. That doesn't mean that they aren't very different and separate things.

[JMoum04]

Originally Posted by Maize

That may work in a theocracy, but what I don't understand is why this is happening in a country that supposedly values religious freedom and tolerance.

I don't think they're doing it to necessarily force their religion on others. If they wanted to do that, they could just create a theocracy like Maize said. Instead, I think, like I stated earlier, that they want what they think is best for society in their eyes, and lets face it, religion helps to shape our world view, whether you want to admit it or not.