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  #51  
Old 09-23-2006, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace4all
My dear brother,
I found your post most offensive:
Though I am not your brother, dear or otherwise, you have every right to be offended, much as I am thoroughly offended by your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace4all
What do you mean "have lost all sence of reality".
I meant that you wallow in your own propaganda and hyperbole. You claim, for example "Hiroshima and Nagasaki gets completely disintegrated and 950,000 people die". Please substantiate the claim.
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  #52  
Old 09-23-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace4all

My dear brother,
I found your post most offensive:

What do you mean "have lost all sence of reality". The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were reality. If you think what I am saying is propaganda then you should look at the propaganda of the US. Even the UN itself is played by puppet strings by the US.

Correct me if I am wrong but what I Understood is:
"What your saying is propaganda"

Salam
Good job reading. He didn't deny that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were attacked. He stated the fact that you greatly exagerated the destruction that took place. Though the personal insults did not need to be attached.
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  #53  
Old 09-23-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
Though I am not your brother, dear or otherwise, you have every right to be offended, much as I am thoroughly offended by your post.
In what way were you offended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
I meant that you wallow in your own propaganda and hyperbole. You claim, for example "Hiroshima and Nagasaki gets completely disintegrated and 950,000 people die". Please substantiate the claim.
950 K of people is what i remember from memory from a 7th grade Social studies compition ( we scored 8th in state) . I looked back and i found that it was less, http://www.gensuikin.org/english/photo.html


Sorry I was a little off, I swear it is in no way intentional.

Don't even try to convince me that the bombings were less than a massacre. I guess a "Dirty Jap" life is much less than an American one. Once again I restate that I am an American; I live with American people.

Majority of the American people are almost like the nicest people you can meet around the globe. Itís the government that I dislike.

You are my dear brother regardless of your view. I believe if the world took steps like that it would be a better place to live.

Peace and Blessings
-Peace4All


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  #54  
Old 09-23-2006, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiB.
Good job reading. He didn't deny that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were attacked. He stated the fact that you greatly exagerated the destruction that took place. Though the personal insults did not need to be attached.
I looked into it, thanks
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  #55  
Old 09-23-2006, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace4all


In what way were you offended?



950 K of people is what i remember from memory from a 7th grade Social studies compition ( we scored 8th in state) . I looked back and i found that it was less, http://www.gensuikin.org/english/photo.html


Sorry I was a little off, I swear it is in no way intentional.

Don't even try to convince me that the bombings were less than a massacre. I guess a "Dirty Jap" life is much less than an American one. Once again I restate that I am an American; I live with American people.

Majority of the American people are almost like the nicest people you can meet around the globe. Itís the government that I dislike.

You are my dear brother regardless of your view. I believe if the world took steps like that it would be a better place to live.

Peace and Blessings
-Peace4All


The attacks were a horrible incident. But they were the best option in an already bad situation. This is really a topic for another thread though.
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  #56  
Old 09-23-2006, 10:37 PM
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violence is condoned in Islam in self defence, the problem we face today is that violence is perpetrated in the name of Islam on percieved references of self defence, such as coalition troops fight muslims in Afghanistan so as these muslims are part of the Ummah they are fighting all muslims so it is in self defence if i attack a coalition country.
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  #57  
Old 09-23-2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
I'd have thought the number of Muslims who aren't terrorists was higher than 98%.


That's to prevent certain people from challenging my statistics but you are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

The question, though, is whether Islam promotes violence. We can look at that from several angles:
I'm not sure if you want me to but i am going to answer your questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
1) Do the teachings of Islam provide the theoretical framework that is used to justify violence?
If you cut and paste enough it could definitely provide you with the framework. If you read the verses together, hardly.

Do Muslims teach that Islam is the only true religion and that adherence to Islam is a matter of eternal importance?
Islam teaches that at one point Judaism and Christianity were at one point correct. However after years past the books became corrupted so Allah SWT sent Mohamed PBUH as the last and final prophet and promised to protect the book. On the other hand it teaches to respect other religions and their holy shrines and not to desegregate them.

Do Muslims teach that "martyrs" receive rewards in the afterlife for their martyrdom?
Extreme great reward. When you hear the verses of the things promised to those men your heart tingles with want to be one of the martyrs. You can compare this to the honor promised to the Roman Legions. In both cases they extremely boost the performance of a battle, and Allah SWT knew that. I don't see how this is relevant to the idea of terrorism though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
2) Do Muslims justify violence under any circumstances? What circumstances?
Yes they do in some circumstances:
Defensive War, War with no materialistic value, War against countries not allowing Muslim people to live in peace, War with countries not accepting peace and etc....

This brings us to an essential point of the policy of warfare:
The prophet PBUH Said
Donít kill a woman, child, or anyone without carrying a sword (unarmed), don't even cut a tree (so don't destroy peopleís crops after battles), Don't burn anything beneficial


To be continued... (First time i had to break a post up LOL)

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  #58  
Old 09-23-2006, 11:18 PM
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Arrow Continuation

Alrite, This continues the rest of it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
3) Do Muslims promote non-violence?


Absolutely, In all cases in Islam you must try your hardest to find a peaceful solution before you go to war. In Practice Mohamed Alkasim entered India without violence after warning them that if they do not let Muslims worship in peace he will be forced to bring an army. In the end the Ruler accepted the treaty and there was no war. Also the Quran Says:

192:2. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

192:2. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
193:2. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
194:2. The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. 195:2. And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.

So Allah SWT asks to "refrain yourselves" meaning to always look for methods of peace before resorting to warfare.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
Do you think the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center would have done so if they didn't believe they were acting on a matter of supreme importance and that they would receive great blessings for doing it?


Well, I think that these men could have been fueled by anger. Obviously though they didn't read up on their Islamic Teachings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
Has their religious tradition taught them the value of non-violence? Has their religious tradition rejected the killing of non-combatants in practice?


I'm going to ask you to give ME an example of when Muslims conquered a city and they killed women and children. I am proud to say that I can find no example of when any Muslim ruler conquered a city and even TOUCHED a woman or child on purpose. That's a huge no no in Islam. They definitely have a lot of examples and can't justify their actions by pointing at a Muslim leader in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
Of course, it can hardly be stressed strongly enough that the same kinds of questions can and should be asked about Christianity, Judaism, and every other belief system.

As far as I'm concerned, Christianity consists almost entirely in false prophecy, false teaching, and false doctrines, and it's meaningless to try to distinguish "true" Christianity from "false" Christianity. Furthermore, those who make that distinction never show how their "true" Christianity is ethically superior to any other kind of Christianity. How does your "true" Christianity promote non-violence? Do the people who believe as you do reject warfare? Do they oppose the criminal policies of the Bush administration?

People tend to be violent. Any religion or ethical system that doesn't actively promote non-violence can fairly be said to excuse violence, and by excusing it, to have the effect of promoting it.

But there's more than that. We often see religious leaders, especially Christians, Muslims, and Jews, actively promoting violence. Unless we can say that no one who supports Hamas is a Muslim, that nobody who supports Kach is a Jew, and that nobody who supports George Bush is a Christian, we have to admit that the promotion of violence is both permissible and common in those religions.


Sadly, the world is not perfect. If Quran simply stated never to fight back then Islam would have died a thousand years ago when the medians were fighting the pagans Mecca. If Islam said kill whomever you want then there would be a lot more BinLaden's on earth and a lot less people converting to Islam. So Islam must find that " The Golden mean, the moderate course between extremes." How to treat those people who fight against Islam? So Islam puts a policy of "Do's" and "Doníts" and you find a lot of people who just take the "Do's" .
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  #59  
Old 09-23-2006, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiB.
The attacks were a horrible incident. But they were the best option in an already bad situation. This is really a topic for another thread though.
I don't think it is that irrelevant to the issue; we can start it if you like.
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  #60  
Old 09-23-2006, 11:31 PM
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what muslims do to promote violence or peace is really irrelevent to the OP Islam in the qu'ran and hadith makes allowences for war and violence which are interpreted by muslims as they see fit to justify that violence
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