True Christians and True Muslims (moral, beliefs, soul, hell)

[gnostic]

When I first join islam.com and then RF forums, I didn't know anything about this true Christian and true Muslim, and I was puzzle over this assertion that some people have made. People I have across in these forums would often say this person this person or that person is not a true Christian or true Muslim.

What make them "true"?

How do you judge a person to be true whatever?

Is belonging to one sect truer than another sect?

Is due to how they adhere to their scripture, teaching or moral/ethic?

To me, it sounds very subjective. Either you are Christian or Muslim or you are not, regardless if they are good or bad, tall or short, fat or skinny, black or white, male or female. You may differ from one another, due to interpretations of your scripture or teaching, but I don't think it is possible to judge the trueness of person's belief, because different people will always have different perspective on the truth or trueness of their belief.

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by gnostic

When I first join islam.com and then RF forums, I didn't know anything about this true Christian and true Muslim, and I was puzzle over this assertion that some people have made. People I have across in these forums would often say this person this person or that person is not a true Christian or true Muslim.

What make them "true"?

How do you judge a person to be true whatever?

Is belonging to one sect truer than another sect?

Is due to how they adhere to their scripture, teaching or moral/ethic?

To me, it sounds very subjective. Either you are Christian or Muslim or you are not, regardless if they are good or bad, tall or short, fat or skinny, black or white, male or female. You may differ from one another, due to interpretations of your scripture or teaching, but I don't think it is possible to judge the trueness of person's belief, because different people will always have different perspective on the truth or trueness of their belief.

For me, not being a True Christian or Muslim has always meant that they claim to follow the faith, but do not actually practice it. Their behavior is contradictory to the teachings of the faith.

[Victor]

You will more then likely get varying answers. As for me, I don't even give a second thought as to whether someone is or isn't a "real Christian". I'm to busy trying to become a real one myself. What is a real Christian in the Catholic Church is pretty much already spelled out. Even with it being spelled out, as members we cannot know who is or isn't a "real christian".

For who is a "real christian" is only seen in the soul of man. I can't see souls, nor anyone else but God.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Ðanisty

For me, not being a True Christian or Muslim has always meant that they claim to follow the faith, but do not actually practice it. Their behavior is contradictory to the teachings of the faith.

From an objective perspective, this is the norm thru which most people determine. As Christians, we are called to not a paint a picture of people, no matter how obvious the objective actions may be.

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by Victor

From an objective perspective, this is the norm thru which most people determine. As Christians, we are called to not a paint a picture of people, no matter how obvious the objective actions may be.

I think that's detrimental. I understand you aren't supposed to judge, but if you don't stand up and point out that certain behavior is not Christian, then the actual beliefs of Christianity will get muddied and pretty soon you have all kinds of people who claim to be Christian, but their actions are not Christ-like. That makes it very confusing for other people too. A lot of Satanists I know really don't understand Christianity because they've mostly met people who's actions are contradictory to Christianity. If Christians would at least point out who is not behaving like a Christian, a lot of people would be less put off by it.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Ðanisty

I think that's detrimental. I understand you aren't supposed to judge, but if you don't stand up and point out that certain behavior is not Christian, then the actual beliefs of Christianity will get muddied and pretty soon you have all kinds of people who claim to be Christian, but their actions are not Christ-like.

I didn't say we didn't. I simply meant that we aren't allowed to paint an eternal picture of them. In otherwords, we aren't allowed to say they are going to Hell. We can talk to the person and point it out to them, but that's as far as it goes.

Originally Posted by Ðanisty

That makes it very confusing for other people too. A lot of Satanists I know really don't understand Christianity because they've mostly met people who's actions are contradictory to Christianity. If Christians would at least point out who is not behaving like a Christian, a lot of people would be less put off by it.

That is so odd because I've had people tell me the complete opposite. They get upset at the Catholic Church for excommunicating people like John Kerry or Hitler.

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by Victor

That is so odd because I've had people tell me the complete opposite. They get upset at the Catholic Church for excommunicating people like John Kerry or Hitler.

If someone isn't actually following the beliefs, they shouldn't be allowed to be representative of the belief system. Maybe some people do think that's a little harsh. *shrug* I'm kind of confused why people who don't follow the beliefs would want to be a part of that church or religion, etc.

My different view on it could be because I'm always having to fight against people who are a poor representation of the LHP religions.

[SPLogan]

In essence I think that only God knows who is "true."

However, there are often social and economic incentives to proclaim a faith. Sometimes it is pretty clear that a person's faith is only based on those incentives, rather than a deep spiritual conviction. A person's behavior gives evidence one way or the other. That is why people draw the distinction between "true" and "nominal" Christians.

[JerryL]

What make them "true"?

An adherence to all of the required properties of the word as defined by the observer.

The ability to determine somone as a "true Christian" is dependant on the ability to define what "Christian" means. Since there is no consensus on an exact definition of the word, there will be no consensus on who is a "true Christian".

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by JerryL

The ability to determine somone as a "true Christian" is dependant on the ability to define what "Christian" means. Since there is no consensus on an exact definition of the word, there will be no consensus on who is a "true Christian".

I thought so too.

I just don't think people can say they are true Christian or true Muslim, because how can you measure such thing? One person's thought on Islam or Christianity may be different from those of different background. I don't see how any two people can believe in or agree upon precisely the same thing.

To everyone else:

Does a person who failed to adhere to one thing or another, make this person less "true" a Christian or Muslim?

Do a bad or evil Christian or Muslim make him not a Christian or Muslim?