Theism: debating the dictionary (Creator, beliefs, atheist, agnostic, paranormal)

Paraprakrti · #1 08-01-2006, 01:31 AM

Dictionary.com defines the term 'theism' as: Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

Yet, the fact is that an atheist can also believe in a god or gods and not compromise his/her atheism. Theism is distinguished from atheism by the belief in a God(s) that constitutes the Supreme Absolute Truth. Otherwise, belief in a "god" or "gods" is merely the belief in beings with some amount of power in this universe. In this case, I can believe in bob smith down the street who has some amount of power in this universe and, abracadabra, I am a theist. Since this is absurd in that it would make everyone a theist, it must logically be concluded that a theist be defined as someone who believes in a supreme God.

MaddLlama · #2 08-01-2006, 08:46 AM

I disagree. Not everyone who considers themselves a theist believes that any God has absolute power, or is the ultimate only truth of the universe.
And, some street huckster magician who cons you out of money isn't a God. Even if he had magical powers to shoot fire from his eyes it wouldn't make him a God either.

And, if you believe that God exists, then you're not an atheist. If you believe that God exists, then you are a theist. If you beleve it's possible that God could exist, then you are agnostic. If you believe that God does not exist, then you are an atheist.

JerryL · #3 08-01-2006, 09:18 AM

You are inventing a definition of "god".

"The" means "god" and "ism" refers to a belief.
"a" means "lack" or "not".

the-ism = god-belief
a-the-ism = lack-god-belief.

You then say "atheists can believe in gods". You support this by equivocating your own definition of God.

If "god" equals only "supreme power" than "theist" means only "believe in supreme power" and atheist means "lack of belief in supreme power".

If, OTOH, gods does not mean "supreme power" but simply "powerful cirtter" then "theist" means "belief in powerful critter" and "athiest" means "lack of belief in powerful critter"

Paraprakrti · #4 08-01-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

I disagree. Not everyone who considers themselves a theist believes that any God has absolute power, or is the ultimate only truth of the universe.
And, some street huckster magician who cons you out of money isn't a God. Even if he had magical powers to shoot fire from his eyes it wouldn't make him a God either.

And, if you believe that God exists, then you're not an atheist. If you believe that God exists, then you are a theist. If you beleve it's possible that God could exist, then you are agnostic. If you believe that God does not exist, then you are an atheist.

Why not? A God who is not the Supreme Absolute Truth is merely a being with some amount of power in the universe. Therefore anyone is a "god".

MaddLlama · #5 08-01-2006, 04:46 PM

Why can a God only be one with supreme power? How did you come by that definition, and why should it be the universally accepted one?

Paraprakrti · #6 08-01-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryL

You are inventing a definition of "god".

"The" means "god" and "ism" refers to a belief.
"a" means "lack" or "not".

the-ism = god-belief
a-the-ism = lack-god-belief.

You then say "atheists can believe in gods". You support this by equivocating your own definition of God.

If "god" equals only "supreme power" than "theist" means only "believe in supreme power" and atheist means "lack of belief in supreme power".

If, OTOH, gods does not mean "supreme power" but simply "powerful cirtter" then "theist" means "belief in powerful critter" and "athiest" means "lack of belief in powerful critter"

Then there are no atheists because everyone to some degree is a "powerful critter".

Willamena · #7 08-01-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paraprakrti

Dictionary.com defines the term 'theism' as: Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

Yet, the fact is that an atheist can also believe in a god or gods and not compromise his/her atheism. Theism is distinguished from atheism by the belief in a God(s) that constitutes the Supreme Absolute Truth. Otherwise, belief in a "god" or "gods" is merely the belief in beings with some amount of power in this universe. In this case, I can believe in bob smith down the street who has some amount of power in this universe and, abracadabra, I am a theist. Since this is absurd in that it would make everyone a theist, it must logically be concluded that a theist be defined as someone who believes in a supreme God.

I have heard people profess themselves to be atheists and still believe in spirits and paranormal phenomena. God is the only "other-worldly" thing these people exclude from their beliefs. I haven't yet run across the type you mention --who apparently are atheists who believe in god.

Belief in god can also be belief in an ideal. For people who believe in the ideal, god does have unlimited power, but unlimited power does not define god.

Paraprakrti · #8 08-01-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Why can a God only be one with supreme power? How did you come by that definition, and why should it be the universally accepted one?

This is the only way to clearly define a theist as opposed to an atheist.

fantôme profane · #9 08-01-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paraprakrti

Yet, the fact is that an atheist can also believe in a god or gods and not compromise his/her atheism.

I don’t think this is true. There is obviously a great deal of wriggle room in defining what is “God” or “a God”. You can define it as supreme power, or you can define it as higher power. An atheist can either believe in the existence of higher powers and not define them as “Gods”, or can define them as “Gods” and not believe they exist. Either way an atheist does not believe in God (or Gods), however they define the term.