does anyone know a scripture that says... (Jesus, salvation, translation)

[mattp]

Here's my problem! Christians are always talking about the "Trinity", first of all, that word isn't in the bible, and second, I've never seen a scripture that says ... God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are one. I have however read numerous ones that say Jesus prayed to his father and Jesus said God was his god. Also there is another scripture that says for a while Jesus was made lower than the angels, so was he not part of the "Trinity" at that time? Also the bible says that jesus was created but God was not.
Please do not suggest John 1:1, at most that speaks of two of the three!

[joeboonda]

5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

This verse is in my Bible anyway. Folks here have discussed the Trinity a lot, everyone has their own take on it. I blelieve in it, Jesus is God having forgiven sins which only God can do, and accepted worship, and was prayed to. God the Father is God, and God the Holy Spirit is God, as God begat His only Son through the Holy Spirit and Mary. Three persons making one God, like 2 persons become one when they are married...Trinity is just tri, meaning three, and uni, meaning one, thus three persons, one God. There are many sites that explain different sides of it, whether one believes in the Trinity, or does not, or the Godhead, or whatever else. A good study. To me the Bible seems perfectly clear that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, three persons, but to someone who does not believe in Jesus, they will say He is not God, or someone who makes less of Jesus and adds something else they or their church do or are for salvation, the Trinity is a doctrine they will not accept. I have known no other doctrine that fits the Bible all my life.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by mattp

Here's my problem! Christians are always talking about the "Trinity", first of all, that word isn't in the bible, and second, I've never seen a scripture that says ... God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are one. I have however read numerous ones that say Jesus prayed to his father and Jesus said God was his god. Also there is another scripture that says for a while Jesus was made lower than the angels, so was he not part of the "Trinity" at that time? Also the bible says that jesus was created but God was not.
Please do not suggest John 1:1, at most that speaks of two of the three!

Slow down cowboy. First off, there is no one verse that clearly explains the Trinity. Second, there is no one verse that explains other important tenets of Christianity either. Such as the Canon of Scripture, Monogamy, etc. So tell me, why would lack of clarity bother you having known this reality?

I await your reponse.

~Victor

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by mattp

Here's my problem! Christians are always talking about the "Trinity", first of all, that word isn't in the bible, and second, I've never seen a scripture that says ... God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are one. I have however read numerous ones that say Jesus prayed to his father and Jesus said God was his god. Also there is another scripture that says for a while Jesus was made lower than the angels, so was he not part of the "Trinity" at that time? Also the bible says that jesus was created but God was not.
Please do not suggest John 1:1, at most that speaks of two of the three!

There are references to the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost as being "one," but you will not find anything in the Bible to imply that they are all three part of a single substance which, presumably, fills the universe since it is merely spirit in nature. There is more than one meaning for the word "one." When a man and woman get married, they may receive congratulatory cards from friends saying, "Now, you two are one." I don't think anybody thinks that they somehow become physically part of each other. The obvious meaning of the word "one" is "unified" or "united," but this certainly doesn't need to be a physical unity.

[mattp]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

This verse is in my Bible anyway. Folks here have discussed the Trinity a lot, everyone has their own take on it. I blelieve in it, Jesus is God having forgiven sins which only God can do, and accepted worship, and was prayed to. God the Father is God, and God the Holy Spirit is God, as God begat His only Son through the Holy Spirit and Mary. Three persons making one God, like 2 persons become one when they are married...Trinity is just tri, meaning three, and uni, meaning one, thus three persons, one God. There are many sites that explain different sides of it, whether one believes in the Trinity, or does not, or the Godhead, or whatever else. A good study. To me the Bible seems perfectly clear that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, three persons, but to someone who does not believe in Jesus, they will say He is not God, or someone who makes less of Jesus and adds something else they or their church do or are for salvation, the Trinity is a doctrine they will not accept. I have known no other doctrine that fits the Bible all my life.

Are you aware that 1John 5:7 was not found in any religious documents before about the 8th century and also was not used at the council of nicea to prove the trinity. that is because that verse was added by uninspired man long after the completion of the bible please research that scripture. No modern translations have that scripture. How can you explain him being made lower that the angels?

[mattp]

Originally Posted by Victor

Slow down cowboy. First off, there is no one verse that clearly explains the Trinity. Second, there is no one verse that explains other important tenets of Christianity either. Such as the Canon of Scripture, Monogamy, etc. So tell me, why would lack of clarity bother you having known this reality?

I await your reponse.

~Victor

the whole new testament speaks of jesus being the son of god. Show me something that says they are the same if it is so clearly understood.

[BUDDY]

Have you ever read the parable of the Prodigal Son? One problem though. The word prodigal is found no where in the text. It is simply a word that best fits the overall piture or theme of the story. So it is with the word trinity. Just because it does not appear explicitly, does not mean that the idea is not there implicitly.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by BUDDY

Have you ever read the parable of the Prodigal Son? One problem though. The word prodigal is found no where in the text. It is simply a word that best fits the overall piture or theme of the story. So it is with the word trinity. Just because it does not appear explicitly, does not mean that the idea is not there implicitly.

So where is the "idea" expressed, Buddy, because I've not been able to find it? I'm referring, by the way, to the concept that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all one substance, that this substance is ontologically everywhere at once, and that it is indivisible and incomprehensible. Where do we see the idea expressed that the Father and the Son are "co-equal"? (I know there are a couple of places, but they are far outnumbered by the places in which the Father is clearly "greater than" then Son.)

[mattp]

Originally Posted by BUDDY

Have you ever read the parable of the Prodigal Son? One problem though. The word prodigal is found no where in the text. It is simply a word that best fits the overall piture or theme of the story. So it is with the word trinity. Just because it does not appear explicitly, does not mean that the idea is not there implicitly.

I dont have a problem with the word I have a problem with the doctrine that is why i asked for scriptures to support it, not personal feelings or other doctrines

[mattp]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

So where is the "idea" expressed, Buddy, because I've not been able to find it? I'm referring, by the way, to the concept that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all one substance, that this substance is ontologically everywhere at once, and that it is indivisible and incomprehensible. Where do we see the idea expressed that the Father and the Son are "co-equal"? (I know there are a couple of places, but they are far outnumbered by the places in which the Father is clearly "greater than" then Son.)

That exactly what I am saying!