Man vs. Beast (morals, choices, choice, morals, religion)

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

What truly makes man better than animals? Religion? Science? Thumbs?

Any thoughts? And why do you believe this

I wouldn't use the term "better." It's like comparing apples with oranges. There are some attributes, however, that make us distinct from animals (although humans are technically animals, I'm using the common use of the word animals.) I would say that the two greatest distinctions are our enhanced intelligence and creativity.

There are certain attributes that are commonly thought unique to humans but are actually found in the animal realm. For example, the ability to recognized abstract concepts--commonly thought to be uniquely human--has been found in pigeons, which can be taught to distinguish the art styles of different artists, say Picasso vs. Van Gogh.

[bunny1ohio]

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

I wouldn't use the term "better." It's like comparing apples with oranges. There are some attributes, however, that make us distinct from animals (although humans are technically animals, I'm using the common use of the word animals.) I would say that the two greatest distinctions are our enhanced intelligence and creativity.

There are certain attributes that are commonly thought unique to humans but are actually found in the animal realm. For example, the ability to recognized abstract concepts--commonly thought to be uniquely human--has been found in pigeons, which can be taught to distinguish the art styles of different artists, say Picasso vs. Van Gogh.

Enhanced in what way?... I like where you're going with this reply though....creativity is common among animals too in their displays for mating (building bigger/better than the next guy... prettier decorations in his tail feathers... better dancer etc) as well as in their abilities to problem solve... althought I would agree they rarely create fresh things... they tend to follow set behavioral patterns unless pressed into a new situation... but that's where the adaptation and problem solving come in...

[Jaymes]

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

We torture and main others for pleasure... animals only kill...

Have you ever watched a cat play with a mouse? There's nothing compassionate about that. They keep it alive, but just hurt enough to be unable to run away, for as long as they find it amusing. Of course they don't understand that it feels pain like they do (I hope not, anyway), but that is torture.

They take the weak or the old or the infirmed

Animals can't afford to do that. Sickly members of the herd or flock have to be driven out, or at least ignored until they die. To get too close to them means you could catch what they have. Birds in particular do this. They hide their sickness as long as possible, because when it starts to show they're bullied and attacked.

Chimps and dolphins in particular have some of the best examples of torture and rape and cruelty I can think of in the nonhuman animal kingdom.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

Hmmm... so sort of a free will (choice) versus instinct theme... I like that one... some animals (herd/pack animals) will shun others for "abusing the status quo" or wrong-doing among the pack... judgement (justice) and wrong-doing...

Okay so let's leave the "better" term for another day and go with "more advanced"? lol

the entire animal kingdom seems to be content with what they percieve to be "life" .... generally speaking, we humans are not - just because we are more advanced, does not mean we are the best there is....

[standing_on_one_foot]

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

... gorillas can be taught sign language (since they can make the shapes with their hands) and can communicate extremely fluently through this medium as well as understand what is said back to them...

Hmm. Well, yes, lots of animals can communicate and solve problems. But not nearly to the extent that humans can. And with gorilla signing, well, it's not actually language. It's communication, but the two are not synonymous...We don't tend to notice language and grammar much, we're around it so often, but it really is amazing. The sheer sophistication of what you can communicate with it...it's certainly one of my favorite adaptations. But it really is a distinctive human trait.

Anyone ever read "The Language Instinct," by the way? It's an interesting book if you like language, although some parts are better than others. It's got a lot about how we learn and process language.

Oh, and ducks. Apparently, ducks are some of the biggest rapists in the animal kingdom.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

What truly makes man better than animals? Religion? Science? Thumbs?

Any thoughts? And why do you believe this

I haven't read the thread yet, but someone is bound to ask you to define "better", and it's a good question. Some species of animals are better at some things than humans. Some species of animals are worse at some things than humans. It all depends on the specific things you're talking about.

BTW, the most successful species on earth, in terms of sheer numbers, is almost certainly some species of bacteria. Does that make that species of bacteria overall better than humans?

[bunny1ohio]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I haven't read the thread yet, but someone is bound to ask you to define "better", and it's a good question. Some species of animals are better at some things than humans. Some species of animals are worse at some things than humans. It all depends on the specific things you're talking about.

BTW, the most successful species on earth, in terms of sheer numbers, is almost certainly some species of bacteria. Does that make that species of bacteria overall better than humans?

Nope... just faster breeders... and I was asking about animals not bacteria

[jeffrey]

The ability to "find religion" when faced with death.

[bunny1ohio]

Originally Posted by Jensa

Have you ever watched a cat play with a mouse? There's nothing compassionate about that. They keep it alive, but just hurt enough to be unable to run away, for as long as they find it amusing. Of course they don't understand that it feels pain like they do (I hope not, anyway), but that is torture. Animals can't afford to do that. Sickly members of the herd or flock have to be driven out, or at least ignored until they die. To get too close to them means you could catch what they have. Birds in particular do this. They hide their sickness as long as possible, because when it starts to show they're bullied and attacked.

Chimps and dolphins in particular have some of the best examples of torture and rape and cruelty I can think of in the nonhuman animal kingdom.

Alright then let's clarify... humans KNOWINGLY torture others... a cat playing with a mouse is just that... playing with it... it most likely doesn't understand that what it is doing hurts... agreed...it's not TRYING to torture the mouse...The infirmed I was referring to was in relation to predatorial attacks... they don't go for the "ten point buck"... they go for the weak or ill or old...not the trophy.... And we do the same as to ignoring and driving away...highly contagious deadly disease victims are quarantined and wait to die... same premise... it's contagious... that wasn't the point though...

What examples are those? That's one I haven't heard yet so I'm curious....

But I digress... so... that means we are on equal footing with animals again... score one for the beasts

[bunny1ohio]

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

Hmm. Well, yes, lots of animals can communicate and solve problems. But not nearly to the extent that humans can. And with gorilla signing, well, it's not actually language. It's communication, but the two are not synonymous...We don't tend to notice language and grammar much, we're around it so often, but it really is amazing. The sheer sophistication of what you can communicate with it...it's certainly one of my favorite adaptations. But it really is a distinctive human trait.

Anyone ever read "The Language Instinct," by the way? It's an interesting book if you like language, although some parts are better than others. It's got a lot about how we learn and process language.

Oh, and ducks. Apparently, ducks are some of the biggest rapists in the animal kingdom.

They speak in "American Sign Language"... since when is that not language simply because it is unspoken? I agree the variety of sounds that can be communicate