Brilliant quote (Creator, tradition, Buddhism, beliefs, homosexuality)

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by Opethian

Nice quote. I would like to add a part to it though:

Don't believe in something simply because you want to believe in it.

What if you never wanted to believe in it at all and were perfectly happy just the way everything was then suddenly you knew?

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by divine

we don't. 'the more, the merrier.'

actually, the more religious people investigate and even mix with other spiritual traditions, the less likely religious conflicts are to occur - or so i believe.

I'm inclined to think the same. I hope we're right.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

What if you never wanted to believe in it at all and were perfectly happy just the way everything was then suddenly you knew?

IMHO, you cannot deny your experiences without living in alienation from what you know to be the case for you, but you should take great care in interpreting experience. As has been pointed out, human observation and analysis are fallible. The experience itself "just is"; how we interpret it is another matter.

Second, I think the Buddha would ask whether an experience helped to release him from Dukkah, since that was his concern, and he was (to use a cliche) focused on it like a laser. If the answer was "no", then he most likely would have seen the experience as irrelevant, regardless of how profound it was.

Of course, I'm not suggesting here that merely because the Buddha sought release from Dukkah, there exists some sort of moral imperative for everyone to seek release from Dukkah. Far from it, if someone is happy with the way things are for them, then understandably there is no appropriate motive for them to seek release, and an attempt to seek release "just because the Buddha did" would play false for them.

[Opethian]

What if you never wanted to believe in it at all and were perfectly happy just the way everything was then suddenly you knew?

Random things that seem like miracles can always occur. And of course, there are degrees in the subtlety of self-deception (I'm not saying this applies to you).

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Opethian

Random things that seem like miracles can always occur. And of course, there are degrees in the subtlety of self-deception (I'm not saying this applies to you).

I'm typically agnostic about other people's transcedental experiences. Among other things, someone else's experience does not have the same compulsion as our own, no matter how profound theirs is, nor how superficial ours is. To put it in a trivial way, just because someone else is an excellent cook does not mean I am, and may have little or no relevence to me, since we're different people with different talents, interests and inclinations. Again, the mere fact they themselves are an excellent cook does not necessarily mean that I myself can become an excellent cook, or even that I myself would be significantly happier if I were an excellent cook. Perhaps, cooking is something I loathe and would be miserable devoting much time and effort to.

[maggie2]

It seems to me that this is a profound and wise quote. We all need to look at our thinking and our beliefs in the bright light of day. I think the Buddha was looking for enlightenment (wisdom) not perfection. Wisdom does not come from blind acceptance of a book or what some minister/priest/preacher tells us a book means. Wisdom comes from having an open mind and heart and contemplating ideas and concepts.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by maggie2

It seems to me that this is a profound and wise quote. We all need to look at our thinking and our beliefs in the bright light of day. I think the Buddha was looking for enlightenment (wisdom) not perfection. Wisdom does not come from blind acceptance of a book or what some minister/priest/preacher tells us a book means. Wisdom comes from having an open mind and heart and contemplating ideas and concepts.

May I quibble with you, Maggie? [quibble=Silly Sunstone]I don't think the Buddha was looking for wisdom, but rather release from Dukkah.[/quibble] I quite agree, however, that "wisdom does not come from blind acceptance of a book or what some minister/priest/preacher tells us a book means." And, I suspect you will agree that far too many people are confused enough to think it does?

[Sunstone]

Although it's somewhat off topic, it might help us understand the Buddha's central concern to quote the Four Noble Truths here:

1. Life is dukkah;
2. Dukkah is due to attachment (trishna);
3. Attachment (trishna) can be overcome;
4. There is a path (dharma) for accomplishing this.


To the best of my memory, Dukkah was originally a technical word that referred to out of jointedness, specifically to the out of jointedness of a dislocated shoulder or to a wobbly axel imperfectly fitted to a chariot wheel. It is usually translated as "suffering", but another way of translating it (although imperfectly) could be "filled with anguish". There is some similarity of concept between Dukkah and the germanic word "sin" which originally meant "to miss the mark", as in to shoot an arrow that misses the target. But, very important, the concept of Dukkah does not imply guilt, contrary to what the term "sin" has come to mean.


Trishna originally meant "thirst", and has come to mean craving, clinging, greed, lust, etc.


Dharma originally meant "law", I recall.


Perhaps, the proper way to approach these truths is not to take them as givens, but to consider them in light of the quote from the OP. That is, to consider them as hypothetical, unproven, and to be subjected to observation and analysis before acceptance.

I hope all this helps.