Is God a split-personality? (Jesus, contradiction, blood, creation, atheist)

bunny1ohio · #1 04-28-2006, 08:40 AM

Who here on the board (Christian, atheist, anybody) can give me a solid logical reason for the all kind loving G-d of the NT doing a complete personality change from the OT. Here's a couple options to get you started. With the commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"... doesn't that sound to you like there are more than one and he acknowledges them as well? To me it just states that you should not put them ahead of him in your worship. Is the Christian G-d of the Bible actually 2 seperate entities that have been mistakenly lumped together into the same book and hence all the contradictions about him? The G-d of the OT was a "jealous vengeful G-d"

, but the NT version says love peace and harmony to all

.... why would the G-d of the OT destroy his own creation multiple times... then turn around and claim that we are made in his image and he loves us all so much he sent his son to abolish us of our sins instead of just killing us all again? What changed?

Here's a good website that points out some of the basic personality differences in G-d from the OT to the NT

http://skeptically.org/bible/id7.html

Here are a few examples to look at

God is vengeful. Gen.4:15; Deut.32:35; Ezek.25:14-17; Nah.1:2; Rom.12:19; Heb.10:30.
God is a warrior. Ex.15:3; Is.42:13; Ps.24:8.
God is a consuming fire. Deut.4:24; Deut.9:3; Heb.12:29.
God is jealous. Ex.20:5; Ex.34:14; Deut.4:24; Deut.5:9; Deut.6:15; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:21.
God murders and kills. Num.31:7,17; Deut.20:16,17; Josh.10:40; Jud.14:19; Ezek.9:5,6; Num.11:33.
God is angry. Num.32:14; Num.25:3,4; Deut.6:15; Deut.9:7,8; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:21; Ps.7:11; Ps.78:49; Jer.4:8; Jer.17:4; Jer.32:30,31; Zeph.2:2; 2 Sam.22:8,9; Ezek.6:12.
God is love and peace. 2 Cor.13:11,14; 1 Jn.4:8,16; Rom.15:33.
God's spirit inspires love, peace, etc. Gal.5:22,23.
God never changes. Mal.3:6.

A few more... just because...

Sacrifices were to take away sin. Num.15:24-28.
"Jesus" sacrifice took away sins. Heb.10:12; Heb.9:26-28.
Sacrifices never take away sin. Heb.10:11.
God is sometimes angry. Deut.6:15; Deut.9:7,8; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:22.
Anger is a sin. Mt.5:22.
"God" destroys his enemies. Deut.7:9,10.
"Jesus" said to love your enemies. Mt.5:44,45.
God shows no mercy to some. Ex.4:21; Josh.11:20.
God is merciful to all. Deut.4:31; Lk.6:36; Jms.5:11.
God decides who will be deaf, dumb, and blind. Ex.4:11.
God is no respecter of persons. 2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chr.19:7; Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11.
Satan deceives. Rev.12:9.
God deceives. Ezek.14:9; 2 Thess.2:11.
God cannot lie and hates lying. Prov.12:22; Heb.6:18.
God condones lying. 1 Ki.22:22,23; 2 Chr.18:21,22.
The Spirit of God is truth. Jn.14:17; Jn.15:26; Jn.16:13; 1 Jn.4:6; 1 Jn.5:6.
The Spirit of God is a lying or evil spirit. 1 Sam.16:14-16,23; 1 Sam.18:10; 1 Sam.19:9; 1 Ki.22:22,23; 2 Chr.18:21,22.

So, help me out here guys.... what's different.... what changed G-d's mind from destroying his creations to saving them? Did he change? Or just men's perception of him?

EnhancedSpirit · #2 04-28-2006, 09:10 AM

I have always said that Satan is not God's enemy, but was created by God, and that Satan was in God's service. He is the 'smith that shapes and conditions with fire'. God is neither Good/Bad, but a perfect balance of the two.

In the beginning of 1 Sam. 16, Samuel is afraid to to search for the new anointed king, Saul would surely kill him for it, but as a result of this 'evil spirit' brought on by God, Saul in the end of 1 Sam. 16, loves David for playing music to him, the very man who is to replace him as king, and ends up depending on that relationship for peace of mind.

14 At that very moment the Spirit of God left Saul and in its place a black mood sent by God settled on him. He was terrified. 15 Saul's advisors said, "This awful tormenting depression from God is making your life miserable. 16 O master, let us help. Let us look for someone who can play the harp. When the black mood from God moves in, he'll play his music and you'll feel better."

bunny1ohio · #3 04-28-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

God is neither Good/Bad, but a perfect balance of the two.

I appreciate your take on this one Enhanced... so which religion do you follow then? According to "Christian" terms G-d is love... and he commits/knows no evil. I think you answered my question in the respect that you think he is both, so that would mean there is no discrepancy in the literature.

To me, your interpretation would likely be closer to the truth if we are in fact "made in his image" then I would think that we would take on his personality aspects as well. But if G-d is without sin.... then how can he be both good and evil?

michel · #4 04-28-2006, 10:10 AM

As a 'sort of' Christian (well, I am not sure why I say that, I do believe in Christ), I see the O.T God as being misrepresented by the writers of the Bible.

Christ came to tell us about God. Christ is God.

As far as I am concerned, that says it all.

bunny1ohio · #5 04-28-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

I see the O.T God as being misrepresented by the writers of the Bible.

Christ came to tell us about God. Christ is God.

As far as I am concerned, that says it all.

How is he misrepresented michel? It says flat out they were punished for being wicked. They were killed for their wickedness. They were asked to give blood sacrifice at G-d's demand. He allowed Lot to be tortured in an "experiment" of faith. The ten commandments... are they a "misrepresentation"?

Christ is the son of G-d. He was a man. Although a rare one. So that really didn't answer anything for me... can you go a bit more in depth for me? I was hoping for something besides a reply of faith. Thanks for the reply in any case

EnhancedSpirit · #6 04-28-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

I appreciate your take on this one Enhanced... so which religion do you follow then? According to "Christian" terms G-d is love... and he commits/knows no evil. I think you answered my question in the respect that you think he is both, so that would mean there is no discrepancy in the literature.

To me, your interpretation would likely be closer to the truth if we are in fact "made in his image" then I would think that we would take on his personality aspects as well. But if G-d is without sin.... then how can he be both good and evil?

I did not say that God was both Good and Evil. Evil is a product of man's sin. And God does not know sin, because sin is an act or thought that seperates us from God. God cannot seperate from himself, so he cannot know sin. What I said is that God is the perfect balance between good and bad. Man get's all messed up when they try to judge what is good and evil. That's why we are told not to judge. There is a story about GOOD/BAD,it has many versions, but here is one of them . . .

A man who lived on the northern frontier of China. One day, for no reason, his horse ran away to the nomads across the border. Everyone tried to console him, but he said, "What makes you so sure this is a bad thing?"

Some months later his horse returned, bringing a splendid nomad stallion and several mares. Everyone congratulated him, but he said, "What makes you so sure this is a good thing?"

One day his son fell and broke his hip while breaking the wild horses. Everyone tried to console him, but he said, "What makes you so sure this is a bad thing?"

Later, the nomads came in force across the border, and every able-bodied man had to take up his bow and go into battle. Only because the son was lame did the father and son survive to take care of each other. Truly, blessing turns to disaster, and disaster to blessing: the changes have no end, nor can the mystery be fathomed.

bunny1ohio · #7 04-28-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

I did not say that God was both Good and Evil. Evil is a product of man's sin. What I said is that God is the perfect balance between good and bad.

Man get's all messed up when they try to judge what is good and evil. That's why we are told not to judge.

Okay... we're arguing semantics now.... define bad then? If bad doesn't mean evil then what does it mean? And why would a perfect balance create such an IMperfect balance if we are in his image?

We are also told an eye for an eye... so back to my original question... what changed?

sojourner · #8 04-28-2006, 12:31 PM

Different people view God in different ways. To the ancient Biblical writers, God appeared as a warrior-God who lived on a mountain, geographically tied to the land of the Hebrews. When the Ark of the Covenant went before the Israeli army of David, they saw it as God literally going before them.

With the writers of the N.T., we see a shift in the perspective of the writers. They see God as more of an "air God," who lived in heaven, above the clouds.

If you look at the overarching message of the Bible, you will see that the people God is seen to have smitten are "evildoers" -- non-believers. To those writers, God was not the God of the whole world, but the God of the Hebrews. We view God differently in today's world.

dawny0826 · #9 04-28-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunny1ohio

Who here on the board (Christian, atheist, anybody) can give me a solid logical reason for the all kind loving G-d of the NT doing a complete personality change from the OT. Here's a couple options to get you started. With the commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"... doesn't that sound to you like there are more than one and he acknowledges them as well? To me it just states that you should not put them ahead of him in your worship. Is the Christian G-d of the Bible actually 2 seperate entities that have been mistakenly lumped together into the same book and hence all the contradictions about him? The G-d of the OT was a "jealous vengeful G-d"

, but the NT version says love peace and harmony to all

.... why would the G-d of the OT destroy his own creation multiple times... then turn around and claim that we are made in his image and he loves us all so much he sent his son to abolish us of our sins instead of just killing us all again? What changed?

Here's a good website that points out some of the basic personality differences in G-d from the OT to the NT

http://skeptically.org/bible/id7.html

Here are a few examples to look at

God is vengeful. Gen.4:15; Deut.32:35; Ezek.25:14-17; Nah.1:2; Rom.12:19; Heb.10:30.
God is a warrior. Ex.15:3; Is.42:13; Ps.24:8.
God is a consuming fire. Deut.4:24; Deut.9:3; Heb.12:29.
God is jealous. Ex.20:5; Ex.34:14; Deut.4:24; Deut.5:9; Deut.6:15; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:21.
God murders and kills. Num.31:7,17; Deut.20:16,17; Josh.10:40; Jud.14:19; Ezek.9:5,6; Num.11:33.
God is angry. Num.32:14; Num.25:3,4; Deut.6:15; Deut.9:7,8; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:21; Ps.7:11; Ps.78:49; Jer.4:8; Jer.17:4; Jer.32:30,31; Zeph.2:2; 2 Sam.22:8,9; Ezek.6:12.
God is love and peace. 2 Cor.13:11,14; 1 Jn.4:8,16; Rom.15:33.
God's spirit inspires love, peace, etc. Gal.5:22,23.
God never changes. Mal.3:6.

A few more... just because...

Sacrifices were to take away sin. Num.15:24-28.
"Jesus" sacrifice took away sins. Heb.10:12; Heb.9:26-28.
Sacrifices never take away sin. Heb.10:11.
God is sometimes angry. Deut.6:15; Deut.9:7,8; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:22.
Anger is a sin. Mt.5:22.
"God" destroys his enemies. Deut.7:9,10.
"Jesus" said to love your enemies. Mt.5:44,45.
God shows no mercy to some. Ex.4:21; Josh.11:20.
God is merciful to all. Deut.4:31; Lk.6:36; Jms.5:11.
God decides who will be deaf, dumb, and blind. Ex.4:11.
God is no respecter of persons. 2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chr.19:7; Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11.
Satan deceives. Rev.12:9.
God deceives. Ezek.14:9; 2 Thess.2:11.
God cannot lie and hates lying. Prov.12:22; Heb.6:18.
God condones lying. 1 Ki.22:22,23; 2 Chr.18:21,22.
The Spirit of God is truth. Jn.14:17; Jn.15:26; Jn.16:13; 1 Jn.4:6; 1 Jn.5:6.
The Spirit of God is a lying or evil spirit. 1 Sam.16:14-16,23; 1 Sam.18:10; 1 Sam.19:9; 1 Ki.22:22,23; 2 Chr.18:21,22.

So, help me out here guys.... what's different.... what changed G-d's mind from destroying his creations to saving them? Did he change? Or just men's perception of him?

These are MY thoughts and opinions...

God hasn't changed...

Man has changed...times have changed.

Ultimately, God is Father...Creator over all. From this Christian's perspective, our lives are HIS to LIVE...not our own.

From the beginning, we've defied God...lived to suit our own desires...turning our backs away from God.

And as a parent...God has chastised.

I'm a Mom to two children. They are my world and I love them dearly. As much as I love them, I am their mother and am responsible for teaching them right from wrong. And so, there are times...when out of love...I have to punish them. I have to show them a side of myself that may appear mean to them...may appear wrong to them...but if I didn't take a "tough" love approach...they wouldn't know right from wrong...they might not be the well behaved little girls that they are. And regardless of how I might APPEAR to them...regardless of how the discipline may appear...it's being down out of LOVE for them because I want for them to be good people, moral people...who are able to distinguish right from wrong.

God's relationship with His children is the same way. He loves us more than anything but instead of being parent to two little girls...He's the ultimate parent to ALL of creation. "Time outs" aren't exactly efficient to discipline and guide an entire world full of people.

Yet...any act that we perceive to be cruel...Has been carried out for the overall GOOD of His children. We may not be able to understand it...it may seem wrong to us...but from my perspective...who are WE to question the nature of God, in the first place? He didn't place us here on this earth to control and manipulate HIM. We were created by Him to serve Him...to further HIS kingdom.

I think many God-fearing individuals get this backwards. It's not about us...it's not about our understanding...our pereceptions...it's about HIM...and HIS will.

And if you really READ the Bible...both OT and NT...you'll see that God has never carried out an act against man that man didn't deserve. Man sinned. Man defied God. God has never forsaken man.

There is no difference between the God of the OT and the God of the NT. There is ONE God...Christ's sacrifice was necessary because we had already failed miserably at obeying the rules and laws that God Himself had established via Moses.

Read the OT...God's people...the people that God brought out of Egypt CONTINUOUSLY doubted God. CONTINUOUSLY distrusted Him and challenged God's authority.

So, naturally...God's punishment for certain sin was pretty darn "tough". If the death of an individual or individuals was necessary to save others...to set an example...to make a statement...to further HIS kingdom...then those deaths were justifiable.

Because MAN continuously screwed up...God