Shedding blood in the name of God. (Moses, bible, faith)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

Look at the bloodshed in the name of the Christian God. Look at the OT. And as I stated in the OP, when you think of violence, your 1st thought isn't Christianity. Until you look at the history of it. Name Religion who's history can compare with the amount of deaths that Christianity has.

Would that be deaths per believer, or just a sum total?

Seriously, Jeffrey, how could we even come up with a reliable bunch of numbers to compare? Do we in the West really have the straight dope on the numbers killed in Islam, or Hinduism, or hey...maybe even Zoroastrianism?

We hear all about the deaths done in the name of Christianity *because we live here*.

[jeffrey]

Maybe, but it seems more so with Christianity. As I've stated in other threads, I do not see God ordering man to kill other men. The overlay of Christ's teachings was peace. Defending yourself is one thing, but killing just because someone's beliefs are different are wrong, no matter what religion you follow.

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

FYI, I'm not knocking Christianity. I'm saying that "Killing in the name of God" is wrong and misguided. If God truely wanted someone dead, he could do it himself.

Granted, I realized you don't view the bible in the same manner that I do...

I don't agree that killing in the name of God has always been wrong and misguided. I'm speaking of the God of Abraham here...take the OT of the Bible, for example...

God Himself DID kill people on the spot...I could site several examples, if you'd like. He also instructed his people to kill at times...the punishment for certain sins WAS death...this was mandated by God.

So, in one respect...one could view that your gripe is with God.

Again, I realize that you don't accept the OT of the Bible to be truth...but if Moses were face to face with you...he'd probably tell you...he was following orders, if you know what I mean.

I'm not saying that all killings and murder in the name of Christianity and God have been just...so please don't read this...I just wanted to provide a different take on this...

And if you accept the NT of the Bible to be truth...you do know that many will be killed in the end in the name of Christ.

[jeffrey]

Sorry, Dawny, I don't buy it. If I said that God told me to in kill someone from another religion, what would you think? Would you believe me?

[jeffrey]

And no. I don't have a gripe with God. I just think people to often, as in the OT, use God as an excuse to kill. God doesn't kill. People kill.

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

Sorry, Dawny, I don't buy it. If I said that God told me to in kill someone from another religion, what would you think? Would you believe me?

Now, probably not.

I was referencing the OT when God spoke directly to Moses and established the law under the OT covenant. God himself killed people right on the spot. The punishment for certain sin was death...as mandated by God.

You may not buy it but many who believe...understand that God Almighty HAS commanded death...upon those who oppose and defy Him.

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

And no. I don't have a gripe with God. I just think people to often, as in the OT, use God as an excuse to kill. God doesn't kill. People kill.

But God did kill. I could quote scripture...but I'm sure you're already familiar with it...you simply don't accept it.

God has killed on the spot...without the hand of man...

[maggie2]

Can you cite examples throughout history (other than the persecution of supposed witches and beyond the writing of the OT) where Christians have murdered for the sake of Christianity and God?

When Christianity was young Christians were persecuted. We also know that the orthodox Christians persecuted the more 'liberal' Christians of that time. The Gnostics were persecuted by other Christians for example.

The previous post mentioned the Crusades. There were at least 12 of those where Christians killed in the name of Christianity. Additionally, both the Inquisitions were mentioned. Those too were killings in the name of Christianity. Then there was the centuries of war in Ireland that started over religion.

As someone else mentioned, the Muslims and Hindus in India fight. Then there was the whole scene with the witch trials in North America.

And of course this past few years there's been AlQuada and now Bush who is at war in the name of the Almighty.

I'm sure there have been lots of other wars fought in the name of religion, but that's a good start. Check out Wikipedia for more information on both the Crusades and the Inqisitions. Those were some really great Christians!!

I think it's possible that religion has been responsible for more wars and deaths than any one other thing.

True followers of Jesus have never engaged in mortal combat on earth since Jesus told us to love our enemies. Of course there have been many false christians and false christian organizations who have rebelled against the Words of Jesus and have taken part in combat. But that does not make Christianity a bloody religion. That just makes false Christianity a bloody religion. False christianity is Not Christianity and therefore one cannot use the action of false christians to attack Christianity.

Whether people who did these things were false Christians or not is a laughable argument. They professed to be Christian. It is nice when you can try to wiggle out of the fact that terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity, but trying to say they were false Christians doesn't wash. They were Christians and they did these terrible things. Period.

Additionally, I assure you that there were many men who fought in both the First and Second World Wars who were followers of Jesus and fought in mortal combat. Oh yeah, also the Korean and Vietnam wars as well. So to say that no follower of Jesus has fought in mortal combat just isn't so. Just ask the surviving relatives of those who died in those wars and I think they would agree with me on that.

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by dawny0826

But God did kill. I could quote scripture...but I'm sure you're already familiar with it...you simply don't accept it.

God has killed on the spot...without the hand of man...

And I could quote Grimm's fairy tales too! About the same.