trinity??? (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation, beliefs, translation)

[hanif]

116.And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. 117."Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. 118."If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise." 119.Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfillment of all desires). 120.To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.

[Victor]

So what is it exactly you wish to dialogue about?

[Mister Emu]

Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?"

I think most everyone here will agree that Jesus never said take me and my mother for two gods beside the Father.

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by hanif

116.And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. 117."Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. 118."If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise." 119.Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfillment of all desires). 120.To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.

I don't see your point... but I'm guessing that you are questioning the trinity, and wondering if it is actually polytheism. The Christian trinity is not three separate God, but a single God divided into three forms and functions.

[PHOTOTAKER]

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

I don't see your point... but I'm guessing that you are questioning the trinity, and wondering if it is actually polytheism. The Christian trinity is not three separate God, but a single God divided into three forms and functions.

i know where you are getting this from, but god opened up heaven and said, "this is my beloved in whom i am well pleased." this happened after Jesus came form the water and the holy ghost came like a dove... this in Matthew supports three separate and individual beings... where i believe the confusion come in is when Jesus talked about the father (god) and Jesus’ works are interrelated and would never contradicted each other..."the father is in me and I in the father" this whole passage of scripter is about the will of both the father and the son being the same as far as earth is concerned...

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by PHOTOTAKER

i know where you are getting this from, but god opened up heaven and said, "this is my beloved in whom i am well pleased." this happened after Jesus came form the water and the holy ghost came like a dove... this in Matthew supports three separate and individual beings... where i believe the confusion come in is when Jesus talked about the father (god) and Jesus’ works are interrelated and would never contradicted each other..."the father is in me and I in the father" this whole passage of scripter is about the will of both the father and the son being the same as far as earth is concerned...

I was merely displaying the belief of the average Christian.

Are you proposing that Christianity is polytheistic?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

I don't see your point... but I'm guessing that you are questioning the trinity, and wondering if it is actually polytheism. The Christian trinity is not three separate God, but a single God divided into three forms and functions.

No, but the Christians in the area where Muhammad lived were Christian heretics, and their beliefs were not so far off. I wish I could remember the name of the heresy...it would be helpful about now.

I'm sorry, I'm working from my addled memory here, but I remember reading the context of these verses in some scholarly text on the history of Islam.

[PHOTOTAKER]

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

I was merely displaying the belief of the average Christian.

Are you proposing that Christianity is polytheistic?

i believe misunderstood... there are parts of the bible that have logical fallacies and people jump to conclusions... both god and Jesus is referenced both as individuals and as one being... but the one being is always as a will to do the same... i have never seen it referenced in the bible or other biblical text form the nt documents that referenced God and Jesus as one being both in will and in personages only in will are they referenced the same... i believe and know in one God and that is our father in heaven, his son holding all that his father has, Jesus Christ, and the holy ghost as a messenger to us form god and Jesus also holding all that the father has... so in since if the Holy Ghost gives us a message it is as if God himself is speaking… the will and glory is always to the Father or God… that’s what most people leave out that this earth is in the name and glory of the father or God… I hope this help out a bit…

[PHOTOTAKER]

I’ve tried to read the Qumran but I always felt that there is a lot missing from the text. I would imagine that it may be form the translation or form pour records in the early days of this relgion... since I don't speak Muslim or the language of this text... there just seems to be somthing missing to me... anyone also feels this way???

[hanif]

Are you proposing that Christianity is polytheistic?
christianity is not exactly polytheism.but something in christianity came from polytheism.
three faces of god like this.
GOD IS ONLY ONE.JESUS AND MARY IS ONLY HUMAN.