seek and you shall find................ (ritual, reject, salvation, beliefs)

[Shtef]

Originally Posted by jewscout

if you are a non-jew all you have to do is be a good person, period.

and where does one learn how to be a good person? Well, according to Jews a person is good if they do what is asked of them in Judaism.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Shtef

OK, the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that salvation is attained by performing 7 sacrements, one of which is baptism. Tell me, how can it teach that baptism in Christ is a prerequesite to salvation and then not damn anyone who is not baptised Christian?

No, the Orthodox Church does not teach that salvation is attained by performing 7 sacraments at all. In fact we have more than 7 sacraments and nobody could possibly take part in all of them. That sounds like the usual anti-Orthodox propaganda that comes out of Evangelical circles. You haven't been reading Paul Negrut's infamously ignorant tract have you?

Baptism is not a prerequisite for salvation, as I have mentioned on this site numerous times. There are, in fact, plenty of Orthodox saints who were not baptised. Anyone who has faith in the teachings of the Orthodox Church will indeed take part in those sacraments which are appropriate to them and refusing to do so would mean that you weren't Orthodox, but salvation is not attained (in fact cannot be attained in this life at all) by works, whether sacraments or not. In Orthodoxy salvation is a process and is achieved by a synergy of God's grace and man's faith (the latter of which must be evidenced by works as shown in the Epistle of James).

It seems that you need to do some more research into the teachings of eastern Christianity because so far all you have done is display your ignorance. It is quite possible for heterodox Christians and even non-Christians to be saved because while we know where salvation is (in the Church) we do not know where it is not. God, as Scripture tells us, wills that all men should be saved and we place to no bounds upon Him. In fact, at least one saint, St. Gregory of Nyssa, came very close to the view that all men would be saved, and he was never condemned for this belief.

James

[Ibrahim Al-Amin]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Personally i think you unnecessarily limited your search for God. You looked at only two religions, both of which share a portion of scripture, the OT. Both of which also have a similar view of God.

Shtef,

I appreciate your efforts to enhance your spirituality, but please consider the above advice. God speaks to us in numerous ways.

[Shtef]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

No, the Orthodox Church does not teach that salvation is attained by performing 7 sacraments at all. In fact we have more than 7 sacraments and nobody could possibly take part in all of them. That sounds like the usual anti-Orthodox propaganda that comes out of Evangelical circles. You haven't been reading Paul Negrut's infamously ignorant tract have you?

Baptism is not a prerequisite for salvation, as I have mentioned on this site numerous times. There are, in fact, plenty of Orthodox saints who were not baptised. Anyone who has faith in the teachings of the Orthodox Church will indeed take part in those sacraments which are appropriate to them and refusing to do so would mean that you weren't Orthodox, but salvation is not attained (in fact cannot be attained in this life at all) by works, whether sacraments or not. In Orthodoxy salvation is a process and is achieved by a synergy of God's grace and man's faith (the latter of which must be evidenced by works as shown in the Epistle of James).

It seems that you need to do some more research into the teachings of eastern Christianity because so far all you have done is display your ignorance. It is quite possible for heterodox Christians and even non-Christians to be saved because while we know where salvation is (in the Church) we do not know where it is not. God, as Scripture tells us, wills that all men should be saved and we place to no bounds upon Him. In fact, at least one saint, St. Gregory of Nyssa, came very close to the view that all men would be saved, and he was never condemned for this belief.

James

Well, you have proven your point and I thank you for the information you have provided me. You have shown that my original question can not be directed at adherents to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

just a reminder of what the original question was - "what say you, the Jews and Christians, who would have it that salvation can not be attained outside of your religion?"

[steve at JRM]

If faith is your religion, I believe you are on the right track. It seems to me that God has answered your prayers. With continued faith and prayer, He will direct you to the answers of your questions. I'm sure your heartfelt prayers are being heard. The past is for us to learn from, but the future is our oyster.

[Shtef]

Originally Posted by steve at JRM

If faith is your religion, I believe you are on the right track. It seems to me that God has answered your prayers. With continued faith and prayer, He will direct you to the answers of your questions. I'm sure your heartfelt prayers are being heard. The past is for us to learn from, but the future is our oyster.

thank you

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Shtef

and where does one learn how to be a good person? Well, according to Jews a person is good if they do what is asked of them in Judaism.

the problem is you assume that judgement is absolute, in judaism it is not.
if you are a non-jew the 613 mitzvot of the Torah do not apply to you only the 7 noahidic laws. and, again, if you mess up it doesn't mean you will be sent to Hell, since Hell doesn't really exist for Judaism.
besides, "salvation" in the christian sense doesn't really exist in that way in Judaism.