The Lord's Prayer. (Jesus, priest, Earth, Kingdom, beliefs)

[michel]

I say this prayers most days, I taught it to my sons, explained it, and yet, there is something I have realised I don't undertstand in it.


Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation,

But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.
"And lead us not into temptation"
Why should God lead us into temptation, that we need to pray to him to ask him not to do so ?

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by michel

I say this prayers most days, I taught it to my sons, explained it, and yet, there is something I have realised I don't undertstand in it.


Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation,

But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.
"And lead us not into temptation"
Why should God lead us into temptation, that we need to pray to him to ask him not to do so ?

That's not really what it means, Michel. It's more like don't allow us to be lead into, or keep us from, temptation.

As an aside, I understand that what you're using is the Protestant version, but the prayer really ends with 'But deliver us from the evil one', not just evil in a general sense and the ''For thine...' etc. is actually from the priest's response to the laiety saying the prayer which somehow got tacked on the end. Neither RCs nor Orthodox say that part.

James

[cardero]

Michel writes: Why should God lead us into temptation, that we need to pray to him to ask him not to do so ?

At the time God gave permission to Satan to put obstacles in our path (The story of Job and the temptation of Jesus comes to mind). I suppose this was a way the earlier followers of Jehovah would plead for leniency.

Michel writes: I say this prayers most days, I taught it to my sons, explained it, and yet, there is something I have realised I don't undertstand in it.

Michel. this is what I am to understand about the Lord’s Prayer:

“There is nothing right or wrong with it. In some religions, this prayer is the staple of their beliefs and that is fine. The first thing I should say about the Lord's Prayer or similar prayers is this: They are "model" prayers – prayers designed specifically to give humans a prepared device for communicating with GOD. ALL(WAYS) keep in mind that prayers are thoughts. There is no structured form to praying. There is no standard to praying. Even with prayers you have recited since you were young, ALL these prayers get heard. But do people actually realize what they are praying for and about? Do people really like to hear themselves proclaim the same prayer over and over again? These are questions best asked of each individual.

Well-spoken prayers are the ones that ask for guidance.”

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD

Chapter: The Purpose Of Prayer

Pg: 381

[Ardent Listener]

An expanded translation by Dr. Rocco A Errico:

Our Father who is everywhere
Your name is sacred.
Your kingdom is come.
Your will is throughout the earth
even as it is throughout the universe
You forgive us our offenses
even as we forgive our offenders.
and you let us not enter into materialism.
But you separate us from error.
Because your kingdom, the power and the song and
From all ages, throughout all ages.
(Sealed) in faith, trust and truth.

FYI.

Ardent Listener

[michel]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

That's not really what it means, Michel. It's more like don't allow us to be lead into, or keep us from, temptation.

As an aside, I understand that what you're using is the Protestant version, but the prayer really ends with 'But deliver us from the evil one', not just evil in a general sense and the ''For thine...' etc. is actually from the priest's response to the laiety saying the prayer which somehow got tacked on the end. Neither RCs nor Orthodox say that part.

James

Thank you for explaining that, and the 'extra bit' which has always confused me.

Originally Posted by Ardent Listener

An expanded translation by Dr. Rocco A Errico:

Our Father who is everywhere
Your name is sacred.
Your kingdom is come.
Your will is throughout the earth
even as it is throughout the universe
You forgive us our offenses
even as we forgive our offenders.
and you let us not enter into materialism.
But you separate us from error.
Because your kingdom, the power and the song and
From all ages, throughout all ages.
(Sealed) in faith, trust and truth.

FYI.

Ardent Listener

That's interesting; thank you for that.

Thanks for your input too cardero.

[FFH]

This portion of the Lord's prayer is not correct.

Joseph Smith corrected this verse in his "Inspired Version" of the Bible.

Joseph Smith Translation Matthew 6: 13
"And suffer us not to be led into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
(This is the way the original text read)

King James Version Matthew 6: 13
"And lead us not into temptaion, but deliver us from evil."
(This is a translation of a faulty original text, which had been altered. It was not the person's fault who translated it into English, because the text had already been altered before King James commissioned it to be translated.)

[FFH]

Joseph Smith Translation Luke 11: 4
"And let us not be led into temptaion; but deliver us from evil:"
(correct inspired version)

King James Version Luke 11: 4
"And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."
(this was translated from a faulty original text)

[Anastasios]

Well, I will just try to translate it myself, please forgive my presumption, I just thought it may be helpful. And excuse my English, since it is my not mother tongue.

Luke 11.4.1: ...ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν...
Matthew 6.12.1: ...ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν...
For the verb ἀφίημι (both), remit, check the Greek Lexicon:http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2318332
For the noun ἁμαρτία (Luke), sin, check the Greek Lexicon:http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?layout.reflang=greek;layout.reflookup=a%29ma rtia;doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D% 234966
For the noun ὀφείλημα (Matthew), debt, check the Greek Lexicon:http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2376077
Luke 11.4.1: ...ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν...
Matthew 6.12.1: ...ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν...
Well if I would freely translate, it would simply be something like:

Luke: remit us our sins
Matthew: remit us our debts.

[jeffrey]

Michel, I take it to strengthen us. To give us strength against evil. The opposipte of leading us into temptation is leading us to God. IMO.

[Anastasios]

sorry my references are wrong. I missunderstood.