The Book of Mormon (Jesus, gospel, translation, Isaiah, America)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by linwood

I have no clue as I`ve not researched exactly how much of the BoM is taken from the KJV but the question is irrelevant to the OP considering even a sentence directly taken and evidenced to come from the KJV creates a serious paradox.

It's no more a serious paradox than Micah, prophesying hundreds of years after Isaiah, quoted him verbatim without once giving him credit. If the Book of Mormon people had access to Isaiah's writings, it's not a paradox at all.

No, the people the BoM speaks of were born thousands of years before the authors of the NT yet the BoM clearly cites NT text.

Why don't you give me an example. It would make it a whole lot easier for me to comment.

The great, great, great, great grandparents of the apostles of Jesus weren`t even born when the BoM was authored yet you tell me his apostles are quoted in the BoM.

The Book of Mormon actually covers roughly 1000 years (from about 600 B.C. until 400 A.D. Twenty generations had passed between the time Lehi and his family left Jerusalem and the time of Christ. Besides, I think you may have misunderstood me. I don't believe I said that Jesus' Apostles are quoted in the Book of Mormon.

The language is identical in places.

Yes, in places it is. But we believe that Joseph Smith translated the record through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. He wasn't a scholar, and he didn't know the language he was translating. If you believe his story, it's just another instance of nothing being impossible with God. If you don't, it comes across as "weird."

Kathryn

[benjosh]

Originally Posted by linwood

I have no clue as I`ve not researched exactly how much of the BoM is taken from the KJV but the question is irrelevant to the OP considering even a sentence directly taken and evidenced to come from the KJV creates a serious paradox.


No, the people the BoM speaks of were born thousands of years before the authors of the NT yet the BoM clearly cites NT text.
The great, great, great, great grandparents of the apostles of Jesus weren`t even born when the BoM was authored yet you tell me his apostles are quoted in the BoM.

How is that possible?


The language is identical in places.
It`s nearly impossible that a translation of a text in Egyptian(reformed or not)to English compared to the translation of Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English and then translated again differently in English with 2000 years between the two will be identical.


I think I understand the reasons entirely.
I`m curious as to what you would consider "unreasonable".

Linwood, do your home work. Your time lines are off. When you speak about something you've not studied it shows.

Did you ever think about the context of those New testament scriptures found in the Book of MOrmon? Jesus said he was teaching them the same thing he taught in Jerusalem. So, let's see what does same thing actually mean?

BenJosh

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by TheGreaterGame

Its called plagerism . . . nice try Joe

Obviously, you don't know what plagerism is, GG. It's when you don't give credit to your source. Anywhere in the Book of Mormon where Isaiah is quoted, the source is given. Nice try, GG.

[linwood]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Joseph Smith translated the plates into King James English primarily because in 1830, King James English was considered the language most appropriate to the word of God. But were to to actually sit down and compare the 433 verses in the Book of Mormon that are quoting Isaiah, you'd find differences in 234 of them.

BoM
1 Nephi 10:8
10:8 Yea, even he should go forth and cry in the wilderness: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, and make his paths straight; for there standeth one among you whom ye know not; and he is mightier than I, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. And much spake my father concerning this thing.

KJV
John 1:27
He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

BoM
1 Nephi 20:1
Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.


KJV
Isiah 48:1
Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, [but] not in truth, nor in righteousness.

This is not coincidence.
Can you begin to understand the process involved in translating through and from three different languages to get the end result of the KJV?
I doubt very much the oldest texts we have of these Biblical qoutes were written in quite this exact way so the reason couldn`t be divinity because the KJV is not how God originally said it.

For the BoM to use almost the exact same wording throughout as was used centuries or even millenia later in the abused KJV is...not possible.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by linwood

Can you begin to understand the process involved in translating through and from three different languages to get the end result of the KJV?
I doubt very much the oldest texts we have of these Biblical qoutes were written in quite this exact way so the reason couldn`t be divinity because the KJV is not how God originally said it.

For the BoM to use almost the exact same wording throughout as was used centuries or even millenia later in the abused KJV is...not possible.

It is possible to those of us who believe in it.

[TheGreaterGame]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Obviously, you don't know what plagerism is, GG. It's when you don't give credit to your source. Anywhere in the Book of Mormon where Isaiah is quoted, the source is given. Nice try, GG.

Exactly, Joeseph Smith didn't sight the KJV bible he took passages from and pawned off as his own translation of the book of Mormon . . . no translation put into two different languages would come out exactly the same way in good ol King James English . . .

[jonny]

Do you want to fill us in on what website you are getting this information from so that we can see what's coming up next? Or is this from your personal analysis and comparison of the Book of Mormon and KJV?

You might want to check out this discussion that they were having at Fairboards.org the other day: http://www.fairboards.org/index.php?showtopic=12598&hl=

There are probably a lot of threads over there discussing the same thing.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by linwood

BoM
1 Nephi 10:8
10:8 Yea, even he should go forth and cry in the wilderness: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, and make his paths straight; for there standeth one among you whom ye know not; and he is mightier than I, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. And much spake my father concerning this thing.

KJV
John 1:27
He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Maybe I'm just not getting your drift. The verses in 1 Nephi 10 were prophesying of John the Baptist. A prophet speaks for God. If God were to tell one prophet what another prophet would say at some time in the future, an exact quote would be entirely possible. For those who don't believe in prophets, it would naturally not make sense.

BoM
1 Nephi 20:1

Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.


KJV
Isiah 48:1
Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, [but] not in truth, nor in righteousness.

This is not coincidence.

No kidding.

Can you begin to understand the process involved in translating through and from three different languages to get the end result of the KJV?

I'm sure I wouldn't even begin to fathom the process. Can you begin to understand the process by which God reveals Himself to His Prophets?

I doubt very much the oldest texts we have of these Biblical qoutes were written in quite this exact way so the reason couldn`t be divinity because the KJV is not how God originally said it.

Of course God wasn't speaking in King James English when He spoke to the Biblical prophets. But if Joseph Smith was translating the plates into King James English and was inspired in doing so, he would have been directed as to how to translate them.

For the BoM to use almost the exact same wording throughout as was used centuries or even millenia later in the abused KJV is...not possible.

12 million of us don't share your opinion. So where do we go from here?

Kathryn

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by TheGreaterGame

Exactly, Joeseph Smith didn't sight the KJV bible he took passages from and pawned off as his own translation of the book of Mormon . . . no translation put into two different languages would come out exactly the same way in good ol King James English . . .

Obviously you can prove this.