Crusades (Earth, Kingdom, churches, catholic, pope)

[Steve]

Hi all,
The Crusades seem to have been mentioned alot lately so i though id post this part of an article giving some more information about them.

Reinforcing popular stereotypes about the crusades, Scott’s politically correct, anti-Christian Kingdom of Heaven has been described by Professsor Jonathan Riley-Smith, one of the foremost authorities on the crusades, as “Osama Bin Laden’s version of history” which “will fuel the Islamic fundamentalists.”
The popular misconceptions about the crusades are that these were aggressive wars of expansion fought by religious fanatics in order to evict Muslims from their homeland, and force conversions to Christianity. Those who really believe any of that betray their ignorance of history.

A REACTION TO JIHAD

The crusaders were reacting to over four centuries of relentless Islamic Jihad, which had wiped out over 50% of all the Christians in the world and conquered over 60% of all the Christian lands on earth – before the crusades even began. Many of the towns liberated by the crusaders were still over 90% Christian when the crusaders arrived. The Middle East was the birthplace of the Christian Church. It was the Christians who had been conquered and oppressed by the Seljuk Turks. So many of the towns in the Middle East welcomed the crusaders as liberators.

Far from the crusaders being the aggressors, it was the Muslim armies which had spread Islam from Saudi Arabia across the whole of Christian North Africa into Spain and even France within the first century after the death of Muhammad. Muslim armies sacked and slaughtered their way across some of the greatest Christian cities in the world, including Alexandria, Carthage, Antioch and Constantinople. These Muslim invaders destroyed over 3,200 Christian churches just in the first 100 years of Islam.

Rest of Article can be found at - http://www.frontline.org.za/articles..._all_about.htm

Like to know your thoughts.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Great post. Thank you.

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by Steve

Rest of Article can be found at - http://www.frontline.org.za/article...s_all_about.htm

Like to know your thoughts.

It is my understanding that the problem with the Crusades is not over how they were started, but what happened during them... All the raping and conquering cities that were not under the Turk's rule and what not. At least that was always my impression, correct me if I'm wrong...

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Ryan2065

It is my understanding that the problem with the Crusades is not over how they were started, but what happened during them... All the raping and conquering cities that were not under the Turk's rule and what not. At least that was always my impression, correct me if I'm wrong...

That's certainly our problem with the Crusades, particularly the 4th. And, of course, that everyone refers to them as Christian wars when they were, in fact, Roman Catholic wars only.

James

[Ryan2065]

http://www.sundayschoolcourses.com/c.../#_Toc63601731


Here are the "bad things" done in the crusades (namely the 4th and the "Albigensian Crusades")

Originally Posted by 4th Crusade

Easily the most shameful of all the Holy Land crusades, the Fourth Crusade ended with no gains in the Holy Lands, but it captured a small Greek town on the Adriatic Sea, and twice sacked Constantinople (!) The sharp-eyed reader will note that the original reason for the First Crusade was to come to the aid of the Eastern Church in Constantinople. Slightly over 100 years later, Crusader armies decimated it.

[quote=4th Crusade] When the time came to transport the 30,000 man Crusader Army, the Crusaders had only half of the required fees. The Doge, always helpful, offered to let the Crusaders earn part of their passage by capturing a rival commercial city, Zara in Dalmatia. The Crusaders were successful in taking Zara (November 1202). It should be noted that the Crusaders did not have the backing of the Pope for this action, as Zara was a Christian city.

[Seyorni]

Soldiers behaving badly -- what a surprise.

[James the Persian]

[quote=Ryan2065]http://www.sundayschoolcourses.com/c.../#_Toc63601731


Here are the "bad things" done in the crusades (namely the 4th and the "Albigensian Crusades")

Originally Posted by 4th Crusade

When the time came to transport the 30,000 man Crusader Army, the Crusaders had only half of the required fees. The Doge, always helpful, offered to let the Crusaders earn part of their passage by capturing a rival commercial city, Zara in Dalmatia. The Crusaders were successful in taking Zara (November 1202). It should be noted that the Crusaders did not have the backing of the Pope for this action, as Zara was a Christian city.

I know nothing about Zara, but I'd hardly call that the worst event of the 4th Crusade - that goes hands down to the sacking of Constantinople, including the theft of relics (many still not yet returned) and the desecration of the Haghia Sophia. The 4th Crusade never even made it to the Holy Land. JPII apologised for what was done to the Orthodox Church in the 4th Crusade, which was very welcome, but the scars of that event run deep in some Orthodox communities, particularly the Greeks and if anything cemented the Schism, that was it.

James

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by JamesthePersian

I know nothing about Zara, but I'd hardly call that the worst event of the 4th Crusade - that goes hands down to the sacking of Constantinople, including the theft of relics (many still not yet returned) and the desecration of the Haghia Sophia. The 4th Crusade never even made it to the Holy Land. JPII apologised for what was done to the Orthodox Church in the 4th Crusade, which was very welcome, but the scars of that event run deep in some Orthodox communities, particularly the Greeks and if anything cemented the Schism, that was it.

Oh, weird, my post was actually alot longer... not sure why it all didn't post here... There were a few other things that I quoted....

The Albigensian Crusade is another bad one..

The Albigensian Crusade (so named, because the French city of Albi was a Cathar stronghold), lasted for 20 years, from 1209 to 1229, led primarily by Simon de Montfort. The suppression of the Cathar heresy established new “standards” for ferocity for the Roman Church in dealing with its own flock. Perhaps the most famous example was on July 22, 1209, when the city of Beziers was sacked, with over 20,000 men, women and children killed by crusaders

Wholesale burnings of Cathars were carried out during the Crusade, including 400 burnt after the fall of Lavaur in 1211, and 94 burnt after the fall of Casses in the same year. It was against this backdrop that Pope Gregory IX instituted the Papal Inquisition in 1227/31. While the Albigensian Crusade had wiped out most of the Cathar strongholds, there were still heretics to be hunted down and burned – many of whom had gone into hiding during the years of the Crusade. Examples of post-Crusade slaughter of the Cathars include 183 burned in Montwimer (Marne) in 1239, and the burning of 215 Cathar perfecti (the Cathar priests) at the Castle of Montsegur in 1244 (sometimes referred to as the Massacre at Montsegur.)

[Darkdale]

Just for the record, I did not find Kingdom of Heaven to be anti-Christian.