that at least one God exists... (eternal, verse)

[Arisce]

Why is there something rather than nothing is the most fundamental question.We do not know why something exists.But if something does in fact exist then it is clear that there is at least one being that is self-existent,that is necessary,that cannot NOT exist.(If P then Q)

1.If something exists then something is self-existent.(If P then Q)

2.Something does exist.(P) (To say that nothing exists is not only false but contradictory:to be able to assert that nothing exists,it is necessary to exist)

3.Then something is self-existent.(Q) (Everything exists by another is contradictory.An infinite series or an eternal past is impossible to disprove but it is easy to point out what absurd consequences it gives rise to)

Conclusion:at least one being is self-existent,i-e,God.

My question is:can there be more than one self-existent being?Or there is only ONE being that is self-existent?
What do you think?

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by Arisce

...

Conclusion:at least one being is self-existent,i-e,God.

The conclusion would be wrong even if your logic is correct (which it isn't). I am the only one that can say I am existent. So I thank you for thinking of me.

[Fascist Christ]

Originally Posted by Arisce

My question is:can there be more than one self-existent being?Or there is only ONE being that is self-existent?
What do you think?

Probably one. Occam's razor.


But I could be wrong...

[JerryL]

Conclusion:at least one being is self-existent,i-e,God.

1. Something has always existed.
2. Something came into existance without cause.
3. Something is self-caused.
4. There is circular causality (A caused B which caused A).
5. All of these work on a false premise regarding reality extra-universe.

These are all possible. None require a God.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by JerryL

1. Something has always existed.
2. Something came into existance without cause.
3. Something is self-caused.
4. There is circular causality (A caused B which caused A).
5. All of these work on a false premise regarding reality extra-universe.

These are all possible. None require a God.

To be picky there is nothing that ties together the "somethings" in the first three statements. Conclusions 4 and 5 can not follow.

[JerryL]

Originally Posted by Pah

To be picky there is nothing that ties together the "somethings" in the first three statements. Conclusions 4 and 5 can not follow.

You've entirely missed my intent. There's no conclusion in mypost, and none of my five comments are suposed to tie together.

I've presented 5 different possabilities which would not neccessitate a god.

[Arisce]

Originally Posted by Pah

The conclusion would be wrong even if your logic is correct (which it isn't). I am the only one that can say I am existent. So I thank you for thinking of me.

Don't cry victory quite yet!I was not thinking of you but "I" pop in my mind.But I am not self-existent.Alas I am only a contingent being.You say the logic is not correct.The reason why I posted is so that someone can point out where it is faulty.Where in 1.,2.,or 3.it does not follow.A simple say so would be O.K. in the discussion part but in the debate part is unacceptable.Those are the rules.N'est-ce pas?

P.S.I would like you to "prove" that you are a necessary being.If you do then I will not only thank you but I will geneflect in your presence.But that is another debate in another thread that you could start.(Just thinking of you,that's all)

[Mujahid]

Originally Posted by Arisce

My question is:can there be more than one self-existent being?Or there is only ONE being that is self-existent?
What do you think?

i don't know if there is a self-existent being,but when it comes to God,no one can know anything about him unless he wants that one to know,he's not a being,he can't be described