God's Omniscience versus Free Will

[camanintx]

Christians regularly claim both that God is omniscient and that humans have the free will to choose their actions. I propose a simple thought experiment to explore these claims.

Suppose that you are going to ask me to choose a number between 1 and 10. Since you are a true Christian and God loves you, he tells you ahead of time that I will choose the number 3 so you write it on a piece of paper to prove to me that God exists.

When we meet and you ask me to pick a number between 1 and 10, I use my free will to choose the number 7. When you produce the piece of paper, what number is written on it?

[Shuddhasattva]

Does it have to work this way?

Imagine, for a moment, that reality's outcomes are due to: A. Deterministic factors. B. Chance/chaos, C. Decisions. In each discrete moment there are essentially an infinite number of outcomes, which then determine the conditions for the next set of outcomes. God has already seen all possible possibilities 'before the beginning.' This does not contradict free will.

Ie, compatibilism.

[PolyHedral]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Does it have to work this way?

Imagine, for a moment, that reality's outcomes are due to: A. Deterministic factors. B. Chance/chaos, C. Decisions. In each discrete moment there are essentially an infinite number of outcomes, which then determine the conditions for the next set of outcomes. God has already seen all possible possibilities 'before the beginning.' This does not contradict free will.

Ie, compatibilism.

God hasn't just seen all possible outcomes; he's seen which you pick.

[Shuddhasattva]

Correct. But the one you pick is self-determined - from god's perspective, all possible decisions happen. To you, only one.

[Skwim]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

Does it have to work this way?

Imagine, for a moment, that reality's outcomes are due to: A. Deterministic factors. B. Chance/chaos, C. Decisions. In each discrete moment there are essentially an infinite number of outcomes, which then determine the conditions for the next set of outcomes. God has already seen all possible possibilities 'before the beginning.' This does not contradict free will.

Ie, compatibilism.

Then you couldn't do other than what god has seen you will do. Way down the line on July 26, 2021 at 8:57 AM god sees you eating a sardine and spinach sandwich. When July 26, 2021 at 8:57 AM rolls around could you do anything other than eat a sardine and spinach sandwich? NO? Then you had no free choice in the matter. Yes? Then god needs glasses.

[Shuddhasattva]

I don't see how passive knowledge of the array of choices possible dictates the choice itself. Why do you care if someone, let alone god, knows what you're going to do?

Let's put it this way. Strategy, such as game theory, is built around anticipating the other players' actions and plans. Say you correctly anticipate an opponent in a complex situation.

Did they have no free will?

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

I don't see how passive knowledge of the array of choices possible dictates the choice itself. Why do you care if someone, let alone god, knows what you're going to do?

Let's put it this way. Strategy, such as game theory, is built around anticipating the other players' actions and plans. Say you correctly anticipate an opponent in a complex situation.

Did they have no free will?

Guessing what someone will do is not the same as having actual knowledge of what they will do. If information about my choice can exist before I make it, then do I really have the free will necessary to change it?

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

I don't see how passive knowledge of the array of choices possible dictates the choice itself. Why do you care if someone, let alone god, knows what you're going to do?

Let's put it this way. Strategy, such as game theory, is built around anticipating the other players' actions and plans. Say you correctly anticipate an opponent in a complex situation.

Did they have no free will?

Anticipating is predicting. Knowledge and prediction are different things--knowledge is of things that have verifiably occured.

To say that God "knows" is to say that it is as good as happened.

[mycorrhiza]

Omniscience doesn't necessarily imply knowing the future.

Even if it did, then God could be seeing all the possibilities and drawing the conclusions from all the details He would know about you, not afflicting free will. Our actions are affected by our personalities and we might be more prone to pick certain numbers. Or maybe time works diffently, so the event had already happened and God simply went back in time to show the number that you had already picked in the future. Also, I'm pretty sure that this would fall under testing God, which is frowned upon in the Bible .

[Skwim]

Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva

I don't see how passive knowledge of the array of choices possible dictates the choice itself.

It wasn't a knowledge of the array of possible choices, but knowledge of the fact of the act.

Why do you care if someone, let alone god, knows what you're going to do?

I don't.

Let's put it this way. Strategy, such as game theory, is built around anticipating the other players' actions and plans. Say you correctly anticipate an opponent in a complex situation.

Did they have no free will?

To cut to the chase, no one has freewill. It's an illusion.