Talking with a Mormon priest - what can I expect?

[TheGillotine]

Hi all, I'm an atheist who's been doing a bit of an amateur theological research project lately. I grew up in the protestant Christian religious tradition, and I'm very familiar with mainstream Christian theology and have read the Bible (NIV) cover to cover multiple times over the course of my life. I've always been deeply interested in religion, which lead to my deconversion.

A while ago I felt inspired to examine a religion from as objective a perspective as possible to try to get a better handle on why religions form and why people get hooked into religions. I chose Mormonism as the religion to study - I'm too familiar with mainstream Christianity to get the objective perspective I'm looking for but I'm more familiar with the basic theology than I would be for, say, Hinduism - so I wasn't going into it completely ignorant.

I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and talked to the missionaries at Mormon.org - Beliefs and People of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[/url] for quick answers to what questions popped into my head. The answers from those missionaries were largely insubstantial, however, so I'm thinking about visiting a Mormon church/temple to get answers from someone with more expertise.

The problem is that I've never talked to a man of the cloth as an atheist. Yes, during my deconversion I went to my pastor to ask questions (didn't get any good answers), but that was as a troubled Christian. I'm anxious about the kind of response I might get as an open atheist. Have any of the open unbelievers here talked critically to a priest or pastor about their beliefs? What was it like? How did they respond? Was it fruitful or insightful?

Thanks in advance.

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

Originally Posted by TheGillotine

Hi all, I'm an atheist who's been doing a bit of an amateur theological research project lately. I grew up in the protestant Christian religious tradition, and I'm very familiar with mainstream Christian theology and have read the Bible (NIV) cover to cover multiple times over the course of my life. I've always been deeply interested in religion, which lead to my deconversion.

A while ago I felt inspired to examine a religion from as objective a perspective as possible to try to get a better handle on why religions form and why people get hooked into religions. I chose Mormonism as the religion to study - I'm too familiar with mainstream Christianity to get the objective perspective I'm looking for but I'm more familiar with the basic theology than I would be for, say, Hinduism - so I wasn't going into it completely ignorant.

I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and talked to the missionaries at Mormon.org - Beliefs and People of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[/url] for quick answers to what questions popped into my head. The answers from those missionaries were largely insubstantial, however, so I'm thinking about visiting a Mormon church/temple to get answers from someone with more expertise.

The problem is that I've never talked to a man of the cloth as an atheist. Yes, during my deconversion I went to my pastor to ask questions (didn't get any good answers), but that was as a troubled Christian. I'm anxious about the kind of response I might get as an open atheist. Have any of the open unbelievers here talked critically to a priest or pastor about their beliefs? What was it like? How did they respond? Was it fruitful or insightful?

Thanks in advance.

First mormons usually disagree with mainstream christian views. Some even regard the bible as meh... Its a good try but its not the book of mormon.

Most know of the supposed tales of joseph smith but will have their own beliefs and you are not going to sway them. He is a known fraud but that doesn't really hold water with them.

They are usually knee deep in this belief system and their belief system grants them quite a bit. Community, friends and possibly even their wife or husband.

You are not going to deconvert them.

And even if you did I'm not sure what the point would be. In the first matrix neo could take the red pill or the blue pill... if he chose differently there wouldn't have been a matrix 2 or 3 but would he have personally been happier? Probably.

Many religions might be based on fiction while providing real life benefits. Until atheist groups can offer similar benefits it is probably questionably moral to open the minds of the fanatics, zealots and followers of various religions to the lies they live.

[TheGillotine]

Well I hardly think I'm going to change the mind of a priest (and I'm going for a priest here, not a rank-and-file churchgoer). This is for my benefit, not necessarily for theirs.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by TheGillotine

Well I hardly think I'm going to change the mind of a priest (and I'm going for a priest here, not a rank-and-file churchgoer). This is for my benefit, not necessarily for theirs.

In my church, there's no difference between a rank and file churchgoer and a man of the cloth or priest as you reference. We have a lay clergy and all males receive the priesthood at 12 years old. A man may be a Sunday School teacher one day and then asked to serve as the bishop the next. After a few years, he may then be a clerk and keep track of membership records. Church callings are not careers and nobody in my church goes to seminary or a university to study theology to become a man of the cloth. There are a few (very few) who are asked to serve in the church on a full time basis for a number of years. (Women, while they don't hold the priesthood, also serve in various callings).

I hold the priesthood office of High Priest and have had some leadership positions in my life (not a bishop). Right now I have a leadership calling to work with the youth in our stake (geographic area of several congregations).

What I know about my theology is from what I've read, through some religon courses at the University, attending sunday school, etc. I'm very much a rank-and-file member, but that's all there is.

Is there something I can answer?

[Dingbat]

Scott C. already explained the basics. I would be careful of asking specifically for a Priest in the Mormon Church you are basically asking for a 16 year old boy. I doubt that is who you want to talk to as most couldn't go into any kind of deep theological discussion nor could most teenagers. As a former Mormon you have to realize the entire clergy is lay there is no theological schools, education comparable to much of anything, and the constantly changing doctrines means people from younger generations will not even have a clue about most older doctrine like swearing to end your life if you give away temple secrets which was stopped in the early 90s after the church caught flak for it.

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

Originally Posted by TheGillotine

Well I hardly think I'm going to change the mind of a priest (and I'm going for a priest here, not a rank-and-file churchgoer). This is for my benefit, not necessarily for theirs.

Perhaps I don't really get your desired outcome. Most religious people had decided their religion prior to if ever learning how to decide such a thing.

But their religion is their life. Lots of religious people don't really believe in their religion but will argue their religion is the right one because they were raised to do so.

If you explain they were born into and raised to do such you will lose... Some people will say well lol I was actually raised Hindu and chose Mormonism because Z and G and LG....

Z and G and LG will never be logical and being born Hindu, catholic, baptist or Buddhist is perfectly reasonable...

Because they really were born that way and possibly raised that way and believe really different things...

But if their beliefs no matter how odd or crazy are just how they feel and how they feel is what makes them happy and they are happy and not hurting anyone than what is the purpose of dispelling that illusion?

If their happy and they know it why not let them be happy?

[TheGillotine]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

In my church, there's no difference between a rank and file churchgoer and a man of the cloth or priest as you reference. We have a lay clergy and all males receive the priesthood at 12 years old. A man may be a Sunday School teacher one day and then asked to serve as the bishop the next. After a few years, he may then be a clerk and keep track of membership records. Church callings are not careers and nobody in my church goes to seminary or a university to study theology to become a man of the cloth. There are a few (very few) who are asked to serve in the church on a full time basis for a number of years. (Women, while they don't hold the priesthood, also serve in various callings).

I hold the priesthood office of High Priest and have had some leadership positions in my life (not a bishop). Right now I have a leadership calling to work with the youth in our stake (geographic area of several congregations).

What I know about my theology is from what I've read, through some religon courses at the University, attending sunday school, etc. I'm very much a rank-and-file member, but that's all there is.

Is there something I can answer?

Sure. What would you think about an atheist coming to you to ask questions about your religion? Nothing aggressive, but stuff like the Problem of Evil might come up.

And sorry for my misunderstanding. When I say "priest" (out of habit) I mean someone able and willing to answer questions with a level of expertise.

Originally Posted by InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect

Perhaps I don't really get your desired outcome. Most religious people had decided their religion prior to if ever learning how to decide such a thing.

But their religion is their life. Lots of religious people don't really believe in their religion but will argue their religion is the right one because they were raised to do so.

If you explain they were born into and raised to do such you will lose... Some people will say well lol I was actually raised Hindu and chose Mormonism because Z and G and LG....

Z and G and LG will never be logical and being born Hindu, catholic, baptist or Buddhist is perfectly reasonable...

Because they really were born that way and possibly raised that way and believe really different things...

But if their beliefs no matter how odd or crazy are just how they feel and how they feel is what makes them happy and they are happy and not hurting anyone than what is the purpose of dispelling that illusion?

If their happy and they know it why not let them be happy?

Again, I'm not trying to deconvert anyone here. This is to help me understand why people believe in religions, what attracts people to certain religions, and why religions "work".

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by TheGillotine

I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and talked to the missionaries at Mormon.org - Beliefs and People of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints[/url] for quick answers to what questions popped into my head. The answers from those missionaries were largely insubstantial, however, so I'm thinking about visiting a Mormon church/temple to get answers from someone with more expertise.

The missionaries you talked to probably just gave you the most basic information. This doesn't mean that it was because of an inability to delve deeper or because they were intentionally holding back. It's kind of like when a little kid first asks his mom, "Where did I come from?" She's probably going to just say something like, "You grew inside of me," because that's enough to satisfy the child at the time. As the child gets to wondering how he got inside of his mother, he'll ask more questions and get more involved answers (at least, let's hope it works that way). If you have questions about Mormonism you want answered in more depth, there is an LDS DIR on this forum, and there are a number of Mormons who would be happy to answer your questions for you.

The problem is that I've never talked to a man of the cloth as an atheist. Yes, during my deconversion I went to my pastor to ask questions (didn't get any good answers), but that was as a troubled Christian. I'm anxious about the kind of response I might get as an open atheist.

To begin with, there are no "men of the cloth" in the LDS Church. There are just members of the Church. Some have a lot more knowledge and experience in answering questions than others do. The fact that you're an atheist wouldn't matter much. The sincerety with which you are looking for answers would. As long as you are not just looking for a fight, you'll get real answers to real questions. But, as I said before, pretty much any Mormon you talk to will give you the basics before getting into really deep doctrine.

[Penumbra]

***Mod Post***

This thread was moved from the Non-Theistic/Non-Religious Beliefs DIR to the General Religious Debates area.

[Nakosis]

In my experience the Mormons are really friendly folks. Always seemed open to question as long as you're not being specifically critical of their religion.