Gay and Christian?

[Antiochian]

First things first. Bigots, I don't want to hear from you. Keep your 14th-century outdated crap to yourselves. I haven't been here in a while but I'd imagine there are plenty of other threads for you to go and fight and spout your poison on about how all us gays are going to rot in hell unless we abandon our lust and all that happy hogwash.

I'm mainly interested in hearing from LGBTQI Christians. Gay-friendly Christians welcome too.

Here's the thing. Maybe I slept on the wrong side of the bed one night, or maybe I'm going crazy. Or maybe this is just a feeling that will pass. But I've been seriously considering returning to Christianity, specifically to either the Orthodox or Catholic trad. So Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, high church LGBT folks, I hope to hear from you!

I told myself I could never be gay and belong to a religion (let's not deceive ourselves now) whose adherents for the most part are against equality for gay people and think we're "living in sin." I told myself I'd never bow to a God who orders genocide in the book of Joshua or who would appoint someone as sexist, homophobic and anal-retentive as Paul to have such a prominent role in the church.

Yet I stopped by my old parish one day and sat in silence, remembering how much this place once meant to me. Yet this church is led by men who say I'm a threat to society, that I don't deserve to get legally married to a man, that I don't deserve to adopt kids, and even that I don't deserve protection in the workplace among other places.

I'm confused. I'm wading a dark, ugly pool and feel I'm getting in over my head. I could use a little advice or guidance. Gay, bisexual, lesbian, trans Christians, especially Catholics or other high church Christians, how do you reconcile gay with God? How do you reconcile centuries of homophobia and hate-mongering with your choice to stay in the church? How do your pastors treat you, if you remain in a church that is not officially affirming?

Shoot, I don't even know if I believe in any god or gods. This is all so strange to me. Do I get a Rx for Prozac and forget this, or is there something to this all? I've also been talking to some gay priests and people in Dignity.

(By the way, I'm not abandoning Wicca. Not by a long shot. That's a whole other discussion that I'm not having now.)

[Antiochian]

Oh and if you're not out here, whatever. PM me!

[Trey of Diamonds]

Best of luck my friend, wish I could help, but since I'm not gay and only very barely Christian, I don't know how I could. You have my support though and if need any bodies buried I know a guy...

[Nakosis]

Originally Posted by Antiochian

I'm confused. I'm wading a dark, ugly pool and feel I'm getting in over my head. I could use a little advice or guidance. Gay, bisexual, lesbian, trans Christians, especially Catholics or other high church Christians, how do you reconcile gay with God? How do you reconcile centuries of homophobia and hate-mongering with your choice to stay in the church? How do your pastors treat you, if you remain in a church that is not officially affirming?

Shoot, I don't even know if I believe in any god or gods. This is all so strange to me. Do I get a Rx for Prozac and forget this, or is there something to this all? I've also been talking to some gay priests and people in Dignity.

(By the way, I'm not abandoning Wicca. Not by a long shot. That's a whole other discussion that I'm not having now.)

I think it is difficult to reconcile the whole of the Bible along with Paul to the idea of being a Gay Christian. Jesus I think was a really cool dude. Accepting, tolerant worthy of respect. Unfortunately most churches have set it up that to accept Jesus is to accept the rest of their theological baggage as well. They've made it so Jesus wrote the whole Bible. To reject any part of it you are rejecting Jesus.

Kind of unfortunate IMO they altered who Jesus was. It's the one thing I find distasteful about Christianity. Taking the story of Jesus and making it dance to their tune.

I think you can be inspired by Jesus. However you might have to be willing to reject the idea that Christianity owns his story.

[Egyptian Phoenix]

The church of England/Episcopal would be your best bet, and you could also remain Wiccan. I doubt the RCC would accept a Pagan Christian much. I still retain my membership in the Episcopal church and can tell you they would. My membership is nominal though. I honestly don't consider myself anything other then Pagan at this time.

[-Peacemaker-]

So everybody that is a Christian and believes homosexual behavior is a sin is a bigot?

[Egyptian Phoenix]

Originally Posted by KingOfTheJungle

So everybody that is a Christian and believes homosexual behavior is a sin is a bigot?

No one said that and that is rather strong language. However when a Christian has it explained to them by qualified Biblical scholars that the Bible doesn't really address the homosexual orientation as much as traditionally thought, it would lead one to wonder why said Christian would continue insisting it does. What reason would one have to keep insisting homosexuality is sinful?

[Penumbra]

Well, I'm not gay and I'm certainly not Christian, but I did read this article today on MSN that I found to be somewhat emotional. The topic didn't particularly interest me, but it's a long article that drew me in emotionally. It touches on AIDS but it's mainly about the man's attempt to bridge his acceptance of his son's homosexuality with his religion and his community.

AIDS in the pews: Son's secret divides Southern Baptist minister and his church - U.S. News

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not gay or Christian, but I tried to give the Catholic Church as good a chance as I could for as long as I could. In the end, I couldn't reconcile things. I couldn't find any way to see the Church's stance on homosexuality as anything but immoral and harmful. It created a bigger obstacle for me than my lack of intellectual assent to their theological tenets.

Admittedly, while I was attending a Catholic church overlapped with the legalization of same-sex marriage here, so the anti-gay rhetoric was probably painted on a lot thicker than normal, but it didn't take long before I was refusing to kneel in mass (since I refused to show deference to a church that preached hate) and was refusing to support the Church materially in any way whatsoever (including refusing to loan my wife money for the collection plate and declining to go to the "fair trade coffeehouse" fundraisers they'd have after mass) for fear that some of the money might go to causes I opposed. By the end, I worried that my mere presence in church would be taken by others as tacit approval of the Church's position, since parishioners looking around the church might view sheer numbers of attendees as a sign of the success of the Church's message.

So... yeah: I couldn't find any way to reconcile a gay-friendly position with Catholic teaching. And FWIW, I couldn't find a way to reconcile it with the Bible, either. I suppose there's enough stuff in the Bible that a gay-friendly pastor could find plenty to preach on without touching on the nastier parts, but that doesn't mean that the nasty parts aren't there.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Egyptian Phoenix

No one said that and that is rather strong language. However when a Christian has it explained to them by qualified Biblical scholars that the Bible doesn't really address the homosexual orientation as much as traditionally thought, it would lead one to wonder why said Christian would continue insisting it does. What reason would one have to keep insisting homosexuality is sinful?

Because that's what the Bible really does say, maybe?

The archetypal living arrangement is portrayed as a man with a woman. Homosexual acts are always described in negative terms; at best, it's considered "unnatural" and at worst, it's considered a capital crime.

Yes, I realize that they don't really touch on the idea of a loving, committed same-sex relationship, but I don't think this is so much because the Bible authors didn't have a problem with it as much as because the concept is so far removed from what they considered good, proper and normal that they just took it as a given that it would be off-limits.