Noah's Flood: local or regional flood

[gnostic]

In Genesis about Noah and the Flood, it can (and usually) read to be literal "flood" of global apocalyptic proportion. That's how it is read. The details are quite explicit: Covering the entire earth, including the highest mountains. Stay in the ark for one whole year, with large amount of animals.

The fact of the matter, it is scientifically impossible for global flood. Where did the water come from? Where did it go? How did they survive in such confinement with so many animals (with regards to air/altitude, food, hygiene/sanitation, lack of heat)? The size of the Ark is not viable? etc, etc

(These above questions are all rhetorical questions, so you don't need to answer them, because this thread is about regional flood. The real questions will come below.)

Because of these impossible questions, many believers now say that it was not global flood at all, but regional or local deluge. That is indeed more possible and probable, and has been known to happen almost every year in some parts of the world. Such floods may not be global, but they are just as powerful and deadly.

Possible and probable as they may be, then the story of Noah become illogical, senseless.

The problem is TIME. And other issues related to TIME.

According to Genesis 6, God warned Noah about this Deluge. He was age 500 at that time, with no children yet. Told to build an Ark, and had 100 years to build to hold his family and all the animals that he could gather. His task would be completed when Noah was 600.

So here are my questions:

If the flood was regional, why build an Ark of that size to hold so much animals?

And if the flood was regional, why even build an Ark at all?

Noah had 100 years to move out of that region. You can walk great distance and find suitable high ground in 2 to 5 years. He could wait till his sons become adults and get married, before they went to seek sanctuary. God was with Noah and Noah under his protection.

There was no reason to build the ark in the 1st place...that if the flood was "regional".

[InformedIgnorance]

In the case that it was regional, it could be argued that the building of the ark was not so much to save Noah, his family and the animals; but rather to impress upon other people that Noah's god was legit... however personally I completely agree with you.

[Quintessence]

I have a personal question for you. Have you ever been in a regional flood? I'm going to assume you haven't, because I'm not sure you'd be asking this question if the answer was yes. Floods are massively destructive. Anything that you don't have in a boat or over the water somehow is going to be swept away or damaged. If you're lucky, the waters recede quickly. If you're not, the longer the water stands the more damage is done. If you're really unlucky, the weather stays wet and you get lots of mold and rot. If there is something precious you want to save, you need to relocate it. You need an ark.

Regardless the story is better read as mythology, not literally, IMHO. Most world mythologies have flood myths and they're often symbolic cleanings to bring about new eras. Washing away the old to bring in the new, so to speak. They're also often interspersed with messages about the fact that the power of the gods will always be greater than that of humans.

[InformedIgnorance]

However one of his key points was the time factor, that is, there was a 100 year warning period, long enough to move anything out of the region (after all it had to be moveable in order to get it onto the ark)

[vepurusg]

And if the scale of the flood was exaggerated from a regional one to a global one, the scale of time and the magnitude of the arc would likely have been exaggerated too.

Maybe he just fancied building a boat, and got lucky (finished right as it flooded), and perhaps the flood lasted a few days; perhaps he just took a few of his own farmed animals on the boat along with his family.

It's possible for this to be based vaguely off a real event. Possible even that the guy dreamed that his god told him it would flood, and by sheer coincidence it would (people dream of god telling them that there will be terribly disasters all of the time without them happening- statistically speaking, some of them have to come to pass by happenstance alone).

It's also possible that is is completely mythology, deliberately fabricated as a fable to teach children and never intended as literal- and then after some time it was forgotten that it was not literal.

[outhouse]

You already know this


it was a regional flood recanted through mythology based on oral tradition.

Ziusudra was a real king who went down the Euphrates in the flood of 2900BC on a barge loaded with goods and livestock. The regional flood and devastation to the local population living along the river was real and attested. The man was real.


this regional flood spawned all the flood legends in the levant including the Israeli's mythical flood.

[Shermana]

What I don't get is why whether it's scientifically impossible or not means anything when we're talking about a story about a Being that can defy all necessary naturalistic causality to its face, you'd have to assume no god to begin with for this to be a concern, so discussing whether the flood "Was possible" only applies if you already don't believe in said Being.

Now what's up with this Ararat anomaly? Why are there cedar cave walls high up in the mountains? Do you know what it would have taken to get cedar planks up there?

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by quintessence

I have a personal question for you. Have you ever been in a regional flood? I'm going to assume you haven't, because I'm not sure you'd be asking this question if the answer was yes. Floods are massively destructive. Anything that you don't have in a boat or over the water somehow is going to be swept away or damaged. If you're lucky, the waters recede quickly. If you're not, the longer the water stands the more damage is done. If you're really unlucky, the weather stays wet and you get lots of mold and rot. If there is something precious you want to save, you need to relocate it. You need an ark.

Yes, I understand that the widespread destruction that can (and have) occur from regional flood. But no, I have been in one. Good drainage in our area.

But I'm stating that if Noah's flood was regional, and he was a prophet and forewarned by god when the flood would occur. I think it would be illogical to build an Ark since Noah knew what he's know, there would be alternative.

But then again, God gave commandment to build an Ark. So an Ark was built.

[vepurusg]

Originally Posted by Shermana

What I don't get is why whether it's scientifically impossible or not means anything when we're talking about a story about a Being that can defy all necessary naturalistic causality to its face, you'd have to assume no god to begin with for this to be a concern, so discussing whether the flood "Was possible" only applies if you already don't believe in said Being.

It's only reasonable to reject paranormal explanations- otherwise, in order to be objective, you would have to accept all mythology as true (and many myths contradict each other, making that impossible).

Originally Posted by Shermana

Now what's up with this Ararat anomaly? Why are there cedar cave walls high up in the mountains? Do you know what it would have taken to get cedar planks up there?

Somebody moving them from where there were cedar trees at the time.
Trunks can be carried and rolled quite easily. Transporting stone is much more difficult.

That somebody might have moved wood somewhere is hardly surprising or impressive in the face of monumental human achievement such as Stonehenge, the Easter Island statues, or the pyramids- some people think humans couldn't have built them either, and that they were made by aliens (do you accept this conclusion as reasonable?).

Reject one relatively impressive yet common human accomplishment, reject them all.

[trruth]

Originally Posted by gnostic

In Genesis about Noah and the Flood, it can (and usually) read to be literal "flood" of global apocalyptic proportion. That's how it is read. The details are quite explicit: Covering the entire earth, including the highest mountains. Stay in the ark for one whole year, with large amount of animals.

The fact of the matter, it is scientifically impossible for global flood. Where did the water come from? Where did it go? How did they survive in such confinement with so many animals (with regards to air/altitude, food, hygiene/sanitation, lack of heat)? The size of the Ark is not viable? etc, etc

(These above questions are all rhetorical questions, so you don't need to answer them, because this thread is about regional flood. The real questions will come below.)

Because of these impossible questions, many believers now say that it was not global flood at all, but regional or local deluge. That is indeed more possible and probable, and has been known to happen almost every year in some parts of the world. Such floods may not be global, but they are just as powerful and deadly.

Possible and probable as they may be, then the story of Noah become illogical, senseless.

The problem is TIME. And other issues related to TIME.

According to Genesis 6, God warned Noah about this Deluge. He was age 500 at that time, with no children yet. Told to build an Ark, and had 100 years to build to hold his family and all the animals that he could gather. His task would be completed when Noah was 600.

So here are my questions:

If the flood was regional, why build an Ark of that size to hold so much animals?

And if the flood was regional, why even build an Ark at all?

Noah had 100 years to move out of that region. You can walk great distance and find suitable high ground in 2 to 5 years. He could wait till his sons become adults and get married, before they went to seek sanctuary. God was with Noah and Noah under his protection.

There was no reason to build the ark in the 1st place...that if the flood was "regional".

That is a good question.

The flood did realy happened and scientist found the evidence which is mainly the black
sea which was formed due to the great flood.

God caused the high temperature to disolve the huge amount of iced water in the north
pole which then a wall of seawater surged from the mediterranean into the black sea

Read More details found here


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