How does one choose?

[Muffled]

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

One could look at things logically. For instance Jezebel had a logical solution for Ahab's desire for a man's land. Simply kill the man and take his land.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

Let me turn this around: is belief in God the only thing that keeps you moral?

If so, then I'd say you're not really moral at all.

If not, then you already know the answer to your question.

[9Westy9]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

One could look at things logically. For instance Jezebel had a logical solution for Ahab's desire for a man's land. Simply kill the man and take his land.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

Because morality is subjective rather than objective.

[Nakosis]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

One could look at things logically. For instance Jezebel had a logical solution for Ahab's desire for a man's land. Simply kill the man and take his land.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

God, laws and traditions try to set a base level of morality. A group morality we can all live with. This type of morality is usually coerced or forced. God was a good way to enforce a group level morality, facing the threat of God's wrath etc...

Group morality can come about through mutual agreement. Kind of how we get our laws. Majority agreement to establish correct behavior. You may not personally agree with the morality of some laws but you have to obey or face the risk of civil punishment. Perhaps a more real threat then expecting God to take care of things.

People also develop their own sense of morality. A person will usually act according to their own sense of right and wrong except when coerce or forced to act otherwise.

Religion was a powerful way to coerce the masses into accepting a standard level of morality. Civil laws can do just as well as long as there is real enforcement. Otherwise people will naturally default to their individual sense of right and wrong which may cause problems with the larger group.

The bottom line in the USA civil laws dictate acceptable group behavior. You are pretty much free to act according to your own sense of right and wrong as long as you obey civil laws or don't care about the risk of facing punishment for breaking them.

[Looncall]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

One could look at things logically. For instance Jezebel had a logical solution for Ahab's desire for a man's land. Simply kill the man and take his land.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

Christians seem to be very attracted to this argument. Is it often preached on?

A very little reflection will show what is needed for people to live harmoniously together. Add to that our natural empathy as a social species and a satisfactory morality follows easily.

I do not see that encoding that morality in religion, together with much superfluous stuff designed to advantage clerics, brings any improvement.

[Skwim]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

Empathetically. We are born with a sense of identification with others. We can relate to the adversities and good fortune of others: putting ourselves in their shoes and regretting their adversity and appreciating their good fortune. With is sense of identification in mind and also recognizing that what happens to others can happen to us, we then establish a code of values designed to reinforce the good and eliminate the bad. It doesn't require threats from on high, just an empathic awareness.

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

One could, but it would be a foolish one.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

This is going off in another direction, and I would have to ask what you mean by "rely."

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

Don't see the relevance of this. Just a stray thought?

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

If you don't know that murder and rape aren't moral without your belief in god, then I'm very grateful that people like you have the bible to keep them from murdering, raping, and having sex with their pets.

[horizon_mj1]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I hear people say that they don't need God to be moral.

My question then is how is a person to choose?

Through the reasoning behind your actions.

Originally Posted by Muffled

I suppose that a position could be taken that everything is moral. Then murder and rape and beastiality and torture are all fine and dandy.

We are what we make ourselves IMO.

Originally Posted by Muffled

One could look at things logically. For instance Jezebel had a logical solution for Ahab's desire for a man's land. Simply kill the man and take his land.

Can a person rely on laws or traditions?

Choose who's laws you will follow, Man's or God's. To Honor and Follow God's Law on must see through the eyes of conception and forget perception.

Originally Posted by Muffled

There once was a law that stores couldn't open on Sunday now there is no such law. Evidently laws change according to what people wish them to be. It used to be that holidays were celebrated on the traditional day but now holidays are often selebrated on a convenient monday. Evidently traditions change as well.

If the reason you seek God is pure, God will not Hide from you: But will you See the Blatant Truth if shown even on a minute scale?

[outhouse]

good and bad existed prior to religions.

end of story.


people have moral's built in, I find this post a bit ignorant to think that humanity that survived 197,000 years without christianity is somehow now required to have religion and a deity as a crutch so it can traverse life without moral decay. [insert facepalm here]

[Sleeppy]

They follow the shadow rather than the Son of God who is casting it. They don't see the Son of God. They'll follow their own shadow and give it the same value, the next day.