Marry the rapist or have 12-year prison sentence

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I've only heard from the news tonight, that a rape victim (Gulnaz) have been in prison, only to be victim of the barbaric Afghan court. They have convicted the 19-year-old as adulteress in accordance with the Afghan's flavor of Sharia.

What is horrible with these so-called Sharia law court is this:

She was given a choice of being in prison for 12 years or marrying the rapist.

Because she has a child from this rape, she chose to marry him. She doesn't want to marry him, but the Afghan authorities have given her very little choice.

I think it is outrageous that the rape victim should be treated like an adulteress. She didn't report the crime because she knew how authorities and law court treated women.

Rape victims should not be treated as adulteresses, let alone be convicted for crime that she didn't commit.

Removing the Talibans still haven't change the status of women. Clearly, I still don't think religious law have no place in modern law court. And in Afghanistan, they still mix religion with politics and law, a recipe for disaster, especially for women.

I think Afghanistan need a complete reform on the government/politics and law. But no such reforms that will protect women, including rape victims, are possible when you have misogynist Afghan Islamic clerics and scholars having powerful voice in the law and politics.

Your thought on this.

I'm going to jump out on a limb with this.

I fail to see the relevancy in inserting Islam or Sharia law in general in this discussion. That's because from one nation to then next or one community to the next the concepts of Sharia law differ.

Take Bosnia. This type of situation does not arise. It's an Islamic country. In other predominantly Muslim nations there are different concepts of Sharia law. What matters here is the specific culture in question. Their specific interpretations.

And I think this specific cultural view sucks.

But as others have pointed out education is a key point here. Women in many cultures with a wide variety of different religious beliefs suffer. There is something else other than religious views at play here. It's older traditions regarding gender roles and a concept of rights that have inserted themselves into various religious traditions. Traditions regarding the role of women in society.

These women need education. There are underground feminist groups of Afghani women working towards this end. I've read differing accounts to how the role of the U.S. being involved in a war there has played. Some that support U.S. presence and others that have stated that the U.S. presence there has made things worse. I tend to agree with the latter view. Specifically because the Taliban was not the only "culture" that held this view towards women. Karzai does not appear to be keen on promoting women's rights. It's a horrible situation.

I believe the international attention brought to this case may help. But it would help if the focus is on the mistreatment of women rather than a generalized blame game against Islam or Sharia law. That and better education overall combined with some economic prosperity would help.

But I don't have any answers.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by gnomon

I fail to see the relevancy in inserting Islam or Sharia law in general in this discussion. That's because from one nation to then next or one community to the next the concepts of Sharia law differ.

It has relevancy because there is a flavor of Sharia in operation in Afghanistan, and the Islamic clerics in that country have huge say what laws are being used in courts.

For sure, patriarchal and misogynistic culture is main problem on how women are treated in Afghanistan, but so are those clerics. They are part of the problem because they bring religion and religious law into the mixture. Instead of getting help from the clerics and from Sharia, the women are oppressed on every side, including the religious side.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by gnostic

It has relevancy because there is a flavor of Sharia in operation in Afghanistan, and the Islamic clerics in that country have huge say what laws are being used in courts.

For sure, patriarchal and misogynistic culture is main problem on how women are treated in Afghanistan, but so are those clerics. They are part of the problem because they bring religion and religious law into the mixture. Instead of getting help from the clerics and from Sharia, the women are oppressed on every side, including the religious side.

I agree that the religious views in that specific culture are a problem. It just seems to me that for those of us outside that culture we devolve into debating about the religion in general. The Pashtun Taliban is a major source of the problems for women in Afghanistan.

The only answer I would have is that instead of our soldiers in Afghanistan fighting this now small presence of Al-Qaeda we positioned our troops around education centers for women and enforced a Western style of law in regards to protecting women's rights. But I don't think that would work.

[Sonic247]

This is true at some point it doesn't matter what the official position is it is just- "This is the way we do things here." And it changes from place to place. Education is one thing that makes the world smaller. But another factor is media, if things stayed on there current course eventually everyone would be tweeting away and watching shows like Friends... and as media became more and more ridiculous people of all races and religions will worship the glowing god of secularism.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by Sonic247

...glowing god of secularism.

Is that a reference to television.

[Sonic247]

Hmmm, obviously there most likely won't be witnesses unless it's a gang rape. But I'm no detective maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's likely someone heard but didn't help... but in that case would they talk. If it's one persons word against another do they use DNA evidence in Afghanistan? And even then how could they prove it wasn't consensual. But if she was put in jail, what about the guy... was he put in jail as well. But then again if the girl goes to jail she obviously had no reason to lie so I guess it would be a rape. Unless she has a vendetta against a guy that's so strong she would go to an afghan jail for it. not likely

[Sonic247]

Originally Posted by gnomon

Is that a reference to television.

eh... well not necessarily, but now that you mention it I guess it could be.

[Sonic247]

Well tv is the place to get the doctrine of this religion I suppose...

Now I'm thinking I should watch less...

Not that everything on tv is bad, but that's the direction it's headed

[Looncall]

Originally Posted by Bismillah

I believe I provided testimony by a judge detailing the judicial process within the Shari'ah system of Pakistan, which happens to fall under that category.I'd be interested to hear where this occurred.Islam is an idealogy, a belief that rejects such barbarism but ultimately it is an idea which is dependent on how stringently it is followed. Do not also disregard the fact that it was Islam that created world class civilizations out of desert backwaters whilst the Europeans were the barbarians, now that the shoe is on the other foot most people tend to forget their own humble history.

Here is a link to the article.

CBC News In Depth: Pakistan

[Sonic247]

Originally Posted by Looncall

Here is a link to the article.

CBC News In Depth: Pakistan

It was a gang rape after all, that's terrible. Well she got a little justice because the spotlight was on it. But I'm sure it happens all the time with no one to help. They can't blame this one on America that's for sure.