Christianity must change or die

[fallingblood]

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

I read the OP, I just didn't agree with it, so you immediately assume I didn't understand it. How typical.

It wasn't that you didn't agree, it was that you made an argument against something that wasn't really the point of the OP. I stated how Christianity must change, and exactly what I was talking about. You addressed something else.

How does intolerance, narrow-mindedness and unquestioning blind faith make Christianity any different than any other religion?

Didn't say it did. However, I wasn't talking about other religions. I was talking about Christianity.

How does it make them stuck in the past?

I didn't say Christianity was stuck in the past. At least not as a whole. I said that parts of Christianity are stuck in the past. And then I qualified that later on. That is why I assumed you didn't understand the OP.

You think tolerance and open mindedness is some how linked to religious survival?

I didn't necessarily say that.

Where did that come from?

You?

I agree that these changes are very desirable and many of us want to see them happen. But the survival of Christianity, or any religion for that matter, does not hinge on them.

I didn't say it hinged on such. However, if they don't change, they will slowly die, and that is what we are seeing. I didn't say they will die off, but as we can see, they will shrink, and loose numbers. Statistics show that well enough.

[-Peacemaker-]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

"One aspect of repentance"? Funny how Jesus didn't mention that that was "one aspect of repentance".

Good thing he has people like you here to tell us what he really meant, huh?



He's not saying what you said either.

It's true that in the passage in question he's only expounding on a certain aspect of repentence. If you actually put some effort into discovering what Jesus' message is you'll see that he's saying exactly what I'm claiming he is. Below is the gist of his message. He unpacks this countless times throughout the Gospels and you found one instance of him doing that.

Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but
sinners, to repentance."

Luke 24 "46And he said, “Yes, it was written long ago that the Messiah would suffer and die and rise from the dead on the third day. 47It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations,f beginning in Jerusalem: ‘There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.’ 48You are witnesses of all these things."

see I wouldn't lie to you.

[fallingblood]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

From what I recall aren't the "Christianities" that are "stuck in the past" among the fastest growing denominations? Catholic, Mormon, etc.

These practice the "intolerance" that will supposedly lead to stagnation and death, but are the ones growing.

Look at where most of those new members are at. Not really the United States, or other more modern countries. If we look at the statistics just for the United States, we can see that more liberal forms of Christianity are growing faster, while conservative forms are slowly passing.

I was primarily talking about more modern countries.

More so, that really is missing the point of what I was saying.

[fallingblood]

Originally Posted by JacobEzra

In what way and on what things?

Homosexuality, women in the clergy (as in fighting for that right), contraception, etc.

[not nom]

Originally Posted by Junglej25

And how does one get their sins forgiven according to Jesus? I'll give you a hint: it has to do with repenting of certain behaviors.

hah, you made that up. I dare you to back that up with scripture.

jesus forgave people. they then tried to change. nowhere is a condition placed on forgiveness. first he stops the stoning, then he tells mary magdalene to not sin anymore. etc. maybe I remember incorrectly, but that's my understanding.

the way I see it, the closer you're to god, the less you sin. NOT, the less you sin, the closer you are to god. and generally speaking, god loves us way more than we can fathom. just realizing that goes such a long way towards correcting behaviour. where the holy meets the unclean, the unclean gets purified - not the holy defiled. okay, now that *I* made up, so what ^^ I like my holy stuff less squeamish. seems more holy that way.

anyway, I think the need for repentance never stops, and woe to those who think they're done with their repenting. also, the phrase "repent of [something]" hardly occurs in the bible it seems. it's "repent", not "repent of X, Y and also Z". one thing is sure, the lost son returns home, THEN gets restored. yes, he has to return home for that to happen (I guess that's repentance), but he doesn't have to first get nice clothes and a ring before he may dare to show up.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by JacobEzra

Its funny. All this talk of "you need to get up with the times or you will just die out". For such an out of date, dieing religion it surely doesn't seem that way.
Sure there are silly protest by atheist and other non-believers. Yet there are still thousands of faithful at Mass celebrations and ceremony. Especially when Pope is there. Many flock from all over to see him.

When I was a young man it was difficult to find a seat at morning service, Ushers were scuttling about to make room.
There were queues out side Catholic services and Mass ran end to end in three continuous services.
Today there is even a shortage of priests in both Catholic and protestant churches.
Church closures are commonplace, with team parishes becoming the norm.

the faithful are fewer indeed.

[Villager]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

From what I recall aren't the "Christianities" that are "stuck in the past" among the fastest growing denominations? Catholic, Mormon, etc.

In the reasonably democratic, pluralist society that is the West, there must be some unwonted reason for popularity of religions with authoritarian history. One must ask why people would embrace authoritarianism, after long and indeed bloody struggles to throw them off. The reason appears to be that people feel exposed to the gospel, and may use an established religion (that professes the same gospel, but is not perceived to practise it) as protection, a perceived 'umbrella', against the gospel. The gospel is so persuasive, and unwelcome, that the objections and conflicts of the past are forgiven and forgotten.

However, it may be a case of jumping from the frying pan into the fire, because, in practice, it may be found that problematic underlying nature of a religion remains; and another dilemma may need to be faced, and many have felt it necessary to abandon any claim to faith, and just get on with their lives.

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by JacobEzra

Its funny. All this talk of "you need to get up with the times or you will just die out". For such an out of date, dieing religion it surely doesn't seem that way.
Sure there are silly protest by atheist and other non-believers. Yet there are still thousands of faithful at Mass celebrations and ceremony. Especially when Pope is there. Many flock from all over to see him.

typical mob mentality


weak

[Trey of Diamonds]

Originally Posted by fallingblood

I didn't say it hinged on such. However, if they don't change, they will slowly die, and that is what we are seeing. I didn't say they will die off, but as we can see, they will shrink, and loose numbers. Statistics show that well enough.

Baloney

The shrinkage of religious followers is not due to intolerance and such, its due to the advances in science and technology. You're showing conclusions crafted to support your view rather than examining all possibilities.

[fallingblood]

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

Baloney

The shrinkage of religious followers is not due to intolerance and such, its due to the advances in science and technology. You're showing conclusions crafted to support your view rather than examining all possibilities.

I am basing my conclusions on statistics and surveys. More people are becoming liberal in there religious views. When asked, the big reasons are about intolerance. I even showed an example of such in the OP.