Why does god rely so heavily on faith?

[JustWondering]

Originally Posted by Corkscrew

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

It is not important to a god that we have faith. It is important to men trying to spread man made religions (like christianity) that consider faith important. Because without it their religion would cease to exist.

[AnonAmos]

It is not important to a god that we have faith. It is important to men trying to spread man made religions (like christianity) that consider faith important. Because without it their religion would cease to exist.

Yes, the religion would cease to exist, but neither God nor His Truth would cease to exist. A tree does make a sound when it falls wether there is anyone to here it or not.

[TJ73]

Fully veiled Muslimah put it best. And in addition to her comments I would add that with direct contact free will would be compromised. With faith you are charged with exercising the sense of Divinity. I always think of bio-feedback. You may not know exactly what it is you are doing to control say, your body temperature but you can learn how to do it. It may not be describable, in fact when people are taught to practice it, you just have to rely on the feed back. It is not explainable. Neither is the "God-sense". But you do have to actively practice it. And if you stop you can lose it rather swiftly.

[Penumbra]

Originally Posted by Corkscrew

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

It's not important to the gods, it's important to people.

Originally Posted by bobhikes

It is necessary for all humans to believe without seeing.

You must believe you will exist tomorrow to function today. There is no proof that you will.

Why would a person need to believe they will exist tomorrow to function today?

Originally Posted by TJ73

Fully veiled Muslimah put it best. And in addition to her comments I would add that with direct contact free will would be compromised. With faith you are charged with exercising the sense of Divinity. I always think of bio-feedback. You may not know exactly what it is you are doing to control say, your body temperature but you can learn how to do it. It may not be describable, in fact when people are taught to practice it, you just have to rely on the feed back. It is not explainable. Neither is the "God-sense". But you do have to actively practice it. And if you stop you can lose it rather swiftly.

Direct contact doesn't compromise free will at all (if such a thing were to exist). Providing additional information strengthens a person's ability to choose and be free, while reduction of information makes a person's choices less free and less complete.

[Ben Masada]

Why does God rely so heavily on faith? He doesn't. The God revealed to the Prophets in their dreams and visions relies and rather heavily on obedience to His Laws. Read Psalm 119.

[Onkara]

Originally Posted by waitasec

so we are culpable because of our limited nature?
....
so it's considered virtuous to make uninformed decisions?

Hello waitasec
There is no culpability, in the context above there are limitations which we benefit from recognising. Culpability arises with hindsight or malicious intention.

I am not sure what you mean, or how virtue is related to decision making. My point above is on how we understand the word "faith", quite often people translate the word "faith" to be equal to 'blind belief' (blind belief is something which can be improved upon), however I have also seen "faith" used to mean personal feeling or knowing something intuitively e.g. 'I have faith in myself to finish this essay on time.'

[Onkara]

Originally Posted by waitasec

1) but how do you KNOW this?
2) isn't labeling god limiting it?



3) well that really has nothing to do with faith does it? all these senses are affirmed physically and empirically...not so with faith.

Hi
1) Do you mean practically/physically, like 'someone told me' or epistemologically?

Indeed, can these two be separated? I would say that with what ever we read or hear, we should investigate it further before drawing any conclusion. If we do not wish to investigate it further then we must either accept it at face value or ignore it and move on, but it is also valuable to know why we move on.

2) Yes, I agree with you. Labels limit God. Words are labels (Nouns = limited objects) and so communication is limited. We need to come to know it for ourselves or settle for endless question and answers, as language has its limits too.

3) You are right, it is not an example of faith, but of limitations of the senses. The OP asks why we must rely on faith and not our senses "seeing". The example only serves to show that that all limitations, whether we judge them to be good (a kiss) or bad (pain of longing) are knowable empirically, as you say. "Faith" (see my earlier definitions) goes deeper than the senses, perhaps that is why people don't trust it or accept it?

[TJ73]

Direct contact, unequivocal evidence would reduce if not completely obliterate free will. If you were to become completely aware that God IS in fact present observing and in control of you eternal fate I am sure it would influence your behavior significantly.

[Ben Masada]

Originally Posted by TJ73

Direct contact, unequivocal evidence would reduce if not completely obliterate free will. If you were to become completely aware that God IS in fact present observing and in control of you eternal fate I am sure it would influence your behavior significantly.

Two points: First, the problem is with most men, who are unable to reach that level of awareness. And second, anything eternal about man is against the Scriptures. There is no such a thing as eternal fate as man is concerned. Eternity belongs with God only. Man is under the natural law of genesis and destruction. (Gen. 3:22)

[Penumbra]

Originally Posted by TJ73

Direct contact, unequivocal evidence would reduce if not completely obliterate free will. If you were to become completely aware that God IS in fact present observing and in control of you eternal fate I am sure it would influence your behavior significantly.

In what way do you think it would influence my behavior?

More importantly, I see people say that free will would remove a person's ability to have faith in god, or follow god, etc. When in reality, it would provide people with information to make a more informed decision as to how they would interact with god.