Is it true that America didn't support women rights a long time ago because of Eve from the bible?

[The Sum of Awe]

I heard it was because in the bible it said that Eve made the original sin so men didn't let women have rights in America.

Is that true?

[Meow Mix]

Uh, I'm skeptical as to how much the Bible had anything to do with it but women were only recently given any modicum of respect and equality in America (relatively speaking), yes. But this is true of the whole world, and as far as I know true of cultures with different religions too.

[kylixguru]

Originally Posted by Citizen of Cosmos

I heard it was because in the bible it said that Eve made the original sin so men didn't let women have rights in America.

Is that true?

Actually, women in America have the illusion of having gained rights because of Eve.
We are right in the middle of that story playing out again.
We are in between having been beguiled and being driven out.

[Meow Mix]

Originally Posted by jbug

Actually, women in America have the illusion of having gained rights because of Eve.
We are right in the middle of that story playing out again.
We are in between having been beguiled and being driven out.

I'm not sure if I'd call it an illusion; a while back I wouldn't have been able to probably even attain a B.S. in physics, let alone work towards my masters and PhD. I'd have been told that physics isn't for women and to go find a sewing factory or something.

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by Citizen of Cosmos

I heard it was because in the bible it said that Eve made the original sin so men didn't let women have rights in America.

Is that true?

women in all cultures and in all religions have experienced the same phenomenon so its not likely that it was due to the bibles account of Eve.

its more likely due to the fact that men are stronger and dominate over the weaker

[TJ73]

Originally Posted by Pegg

women in all cultures and in all religions have experienced the same phenomenon so its not likely that it was due to the bibles account of Eve.

its more likely due to the fact that men are stronger and dominate over the weaker

And that is an important point. It may not be because of what is said in any scriptures, but he fact that people, men in this case, will USE whatever is at their disposal to assert power of others. Let one person proclaim it and other not articulate enough to make it sound legitimate will simply jump on the band wagon. And away we go....

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by TJ73

And that is an important point. It may not be because of what is said in any scriptures, but he fact that people, men in this case, will USE whatever is at their disposal to assert power of others. Let one person proclaim it and other not articulate enough to make it sound legitimate will simply jump on the band wagon. And away we go....

yes thats so true. We see in all religions the misuse of religious texts to promote whatever idea someone wants to promote.

Its true that both jews , christians and muslims have misused their texts to downgrade women and the role of women in society...and a womans worth. I've even read some abhorrent things from buddist teachers about women and their value.

[kylixguru]

Originally Posted by Meow Mix

I'm not sure if I'd call it an illusion; a while back I wouldn't have been able to probably even attain a B.S. in physics, let alone work towards my masters and PhD. I'd have been told that physics isn't for women and to go find a sewing factory or something.

Hey, I got no qualms with a gal getting educated to the hilt if circumstances allow for it. Congratulations!

There were definitely legitimate grievances that needed solving. I don't blame women for wanting some things changed. Unfortuantely, what is happening now is creating worse problems for women than what was originally trying to be solved.

[yourhopeboundheart]

Originally Posted by jbug

Unfortuantely, what is happening now is creating worse problems for women than what was originally trying to be solved.

what, specifically, is happening "now"?

as far as women being subjugated because of biblical teachings, i dont exactly buy it. i think the stories were a means of solidifying existing oppression.
see: the three eves.

[kylixguru]

Originally Posted by yourhopeboundheart

what, specifically, is happening "now"?

as far as women being subjugated because of biblical teachings, i dont exactly buy it. i think the stories were a means of solidifying existing oppression.
see: the three eves.

I agree oppression existed and it is a great shame upon those men who were so ignorant and short-sighted in how many women were mistreated. I'm definitely all ears in hearing genuine grievances.

What is happening now is more of a broad issue that the women's lib movement became a component part of.

From a high level overview, the kind of society and government Biblical law calls for is a minimalist and non-centralized government. Those people within it did not have a myriad of taxes on just about everything you do, regulations making business nearly impossible, licenses creating monopolies and invading the doctor-patient relationship, standing armies to maintain, etc. to deal with. Other than what was coded as law in the Bible, which were all simple codes based on balanced justice, they pretty much had nothing else to worry about but living their day to day lives with plenty of spare time for learning, recreation, worship, etc. Things were cut and dry. But, the only way this greatly reduced societal burden could work is for that societal burden to shift somewhere else.

Everything has to balance out. The Bible calls for a patriarchal order to things and so the family unit is where all the duties pertaining to the needs of society would be worked out. Thus, it became much more important that the family unit be solid and dependable because there were no other safety nets available in their minimalist government.

What I see happening now is the finely tuned governmental functioning God established for the family to take care of has become greatly broken down and disfunctional. Because of this disfunction of the family order of things, so too did the welfare and security benefits of the family unit break down. This break down necessitated some other compensating factors be put into place for the welfare and security of women and children to be addressed.

Thus, the pressures to address these needs grew to such an extent that people decided to reject the family order almost totally for this and instead began to build up an externalized and centralized system of governance to take the place of what used to function purely within the family structure.

So, now, what we are doing is handing over, piece by piece, our individual rights and sovereignty to this centralized government that is growing and growing and growing and putting us massively in debt and spreading out the burden of the entire society upon the entire society.

Unfortunately, when you place a nice soft buffer between one individual's bad choices and any consequences by making the entire society pick up the tab, you now have society bearing the burdens of a massively increased tendency for individuals to make bad choices. People shift to become much more irresponsible when they have such non-judgmental safety nets that are easily abused and taken advantage of.

You also have resources extracted from society and now everyone has to argue over how to divvy up all the loot that has been absconded from whoever society can get over the barrell for it all. Now you have classes of people pitted against one another and people feeling punished for producing and it becomes far more difficult to produce with increased hoops and red tape to deal with. In short, the societal body becomes racked with great contentions all focused upon controlling the power of force that has been abdicated to the centralized government by the masses.

Eventually, the whole societal structure begins to take upon itself the form of the ouroborus:


It literally begins to feed itself by consuming itself. Layers upon layers of new red tape processing occupations begin to form. They are not actually producing a real tangible benefit that translates directly to our basic needs in life so society is even more and more burdened with non-contributive overheads.

Depending on how long this goes on, the time eventually comes when the ouroboros reaches vital organs or it starves. The organism is faced then with the choice of how its own ruination shall play out. Unfortunately the hungry head is so far removed from the pains and aches of the tail end that it senselessly continues to consume itself not realizing it is killing itself.

So, in short, I think our society would be much better off by going back to the minimalist non-centralized form of government that we used to have that expected all individuals to be responsible for their own welfare and I see no better ideal to accomplish this than to return to the patriarchal order that enables the family structure to provide the welfare and security of women and children and to keep things such that this fundamental unit is not undermined.

My family and I wish to live in accordance to the minimalist self-reliant independant way of life. Now that we have children my wife (who also has a college degree) wishes to stay home and raise our family. However, society has now adjusted to double income households. Thus, our standard of living on just a single income is much less than it would have been 60 years ago. I can live with that.

Where I get irritated is watching large quantities of my hard earned money going to support subsidization of things that to me are irresponsible. I also see how government is starting to assert more force in matters that used to be up to fathers and individuals. It's now a felony if I wish to deliver my own child at home without a licensed midwife. In some states I could have my children taken away if I don't meet certain requirements the state decides. My children can be required to be immunized but there is nobody who will take liability if my child becomes autistic or suffers some other permanently debilitating reaction. I could go on and on.

It's all connected. There are those who want centralized governments who fancy themselves as sufficiently intelligent enough to control our individual lives. They think we are too far removed from being able to be responsible for ourselves. They mean well but they end up unleashing more of that which is not beautiful in us and that which causes greater contentions and resentments in the societal body. The quality of life for everyone is greatly reduced, except those who have a feeding frenzy while they take for granted that some person had to produce real value somewhere for everything they are consuming off of the societal dole that becomes plentiful.

I recall the days when a classic liberal education meant you understood and appreciated what it meant to have individual rights under a minimalist government. Now being a liberal means expanding all of the freedoms and avenues to parasitically feed on the stored up resources and virtues of the societal body until it is sucked dry as a bone. The woman's lib movement has contributed massively to the breaking down of the family structure and accellerated what I see as our demise.