God and Depression

[yourhopeboundheart]

Originally Posted by AntEmpire

Not if you're an all powerful god, you could spin that top perfectly for-literally-ever.

I find that to be a crappy analogy... god could've made everyone without chemical unbalances. (equal)

when you look at that analogy through the lens of context it's actually a really good one.

for the sake of argument if god did create two people in a perfect blissful state of perpetual one-ness with him and they were designed to stay in that state, then being out of that state would clearly cause hiccups in the application of the design. (like taking your car from florida to denver and then wondering why it has a hard time starting one morning.) pegg is suggesting that we wouldn't have had any of these problems had we remained in the presence and under the leadership of god. if god told adam/eve that he would stop spinning the top if they ate the fruit then he's essentially obligated to stop spinning it when they do. he couldn't "create everyone equal" after that because he had made a promise.

now, if only there was anything true about the adam/eve story i would actually agree with pegg. but the point i'm making is that it was a good analogy from that perspective. not that it's a good explanation.

there's a very simple explanation to the question "if there's a benevolent creator god, why would he create anyone with a predisposition to mental illness?" and it's simply: "there's not one."

[AntEmpire]

Originally Posted by Onkara

I have considered this. My understanding is that people are not created with depression, it is acquired later in life. Babies or small children don't seem to have it. It comes with maturity, with life.

I do not see God as seperate from us. In fact I see God's qualities as being a part of us. One of God's qualities is bliss or "happiness without a cause". A kind of inner contentment and peace, similar to how the Buddha is pictured.

We too, can have that bliss, but it is concealed, overlayed by our doubts and problems. These doubts and problems cause us to behave in ways we might not of course. Depression presents a challenge.

God wants some of us to face challenges, as challenges make a more interesting life. Because God is not septate from us, He experiences life through us. God wants to experience everything, even depression, after all God created us so why not. It is just a part of the play of life.

In order to overcome depression we have to understand this and understand how to overcome the doubts which lead to depression. This I had to do too. There are no real favorites or victims, all are equal for God, it is just a play.

Maybe you're understanding is mostly wrong. People might not be created with depression, but they are created with the causes. When I was 6 I told my parents I wish i had never been born. No i wasn't depressed as a VERY young child, but the chemicals were already on the path to get off balanced. The only thing different between me and other 6 year olds was my brain.

The way i see my god concept is almost similar, minus god being a being, who is responsible for anything, for any books, any religions, people situations. But this thread is a hypothetical for a creator god.

Okay all good and fun with god wanting us to be challenged, why challenge some more than others. why give a small percent of people unbalanced chemicals. Why take pages from their text book and give everyone the same test? And im not just talking about depression, I am also talking about the little babies who are born so disfigured they will die 98% of the time, even with surgery, breathing tubes, heart monitors etc. Why create that messed up little body, just to experience a few hours or days of pain just to die?

I have over come depression after losing my mother, that was more of a chronic depression, situational on top of having mild depression already, i fought the good fought, i left the church, and I'm much happier now then i was then, even though i still deal with mild depression everyday. But what i have left over from when i was 6 and before that, are unbalanced, unequal chemicals from either a designer, or just nature.

I don't know if you've ever truly looked around the world at the human suffering, there are true victims out there, don't you mistake it. And i'm not talking about people in america who have mental issues.

[AntEmpire]

Originally Posted by yourhopeboundheart

when you look at that analogy through the lens of context it's actually a really good one.

for the sake of argument if god did create two people in a perfect blissful state of perpetual one-ness with him and they were designed to stay in that state, then being out of that state would clearly cause hiccups in the application of the design. (like taking your car from florida to denver and then wondering why it has a hard time starting one morning.) pegg is suggesting that we wouldn't have had any of these problems had we remained in the presence and under the leadership of god. if god told adam/eve that he would stop spinning the top if they ate the fruit then he's essentially obligated to stop spinning it when they do. he couldn't "create everyone equal" after that because he had made a promise.

now, if only there was anything true about the adam/eve story i would actually agree with pegg. but the point i'm making is that it was a good analogy from that perspective. not that it's a good explanation.

there's a very simple explanation to the question "if there's a benevolent creator god, why would he create anyone with a predisposition to mental illness?" and it's simply: "there's not one."

Unless god knew what he was doing, then he could've made the design to fit all the pieces he was putting together. ie. think about the consciquences for his actions of creating satan and the tree of knowledge and placing them in the one place where man was. Do you really think god didn't know what he was doing? He didn't want man to be perfect, he wanted us to know good and evil. He made a scenario in order to justify changing us from 'perfect' which adam and eve were not.


I agree with your last paragraph, I felt like opening up others' eyes to it.

[AntEmpire]

Originally Posted by Orias

Assuming that this certain "God" knows we exist, I'd say he would like to see how the people who were created in his image, tend to the people in his image.

Already been said more or less. to which i respond.

So if god knows about us he's a jerk, he just wanted to see how people would treat each other so he made some with retardations etc?

[yourhopeboundheart]

Originally Posted by AntEmpire

Unless god knew what he was doing, then he could've made the design to fit all the pieces he was putting together. ie. think about the consciquences for his actions of creating satan and the tree of knowledge and placing them in the one place where man was. Do you really think god didn't know what he was doing? He didn't want man to be perfect, he wanted us to know good and evil. He made a scenario in order to justify changing us from 'perfect' which adam and eve were not.

there are a lot of threads on this topic.
and they all don't really mean anything because those who believe will continue to believe despite logical contradiction. faith is the caulking that makes even the most terrifically inconsistent points seem perfectly compatible and believable.

[AntEmpire]

Originally Posted by yourhopeboundheart

there are a lot of threads on this topic.
and they all don't really mean anything because those who believe will continue to believe despite logical contradiction. faith is the caulking that makes even the most terrifically inconsistent points seem perfectly compatible and believable.

It will all be revealed at the end of the play type of thing. Yeah.

I just don't get how they can blame god for all the goodness in the world, and ignore the system of violence as a fuel for food in the natural world, ignore all the diseases, the parasites, the limited resources compared to the people on the earth. But they do it every day. :/

[Onkara]

Originally Posted by AntEmpire

Maybe you're understanding is mostly wrong. People might not be created with depression, but they are created with the causes. When I was 6 I told my parents I wish i had never been born. No i wasn't depressed as a VERY young child, but the chemicals were already on the path to get off balanced. The only thing different between me and other 6 year olds was my brain.

The way i see my god concept is almost similar, minus god being a being, who is responsible for anything, for any books, any religions, people situations. But this thread is a hypothetical for a creator god.

Okay all good and fun with god wanting us to be challenged, why challenge some more than others. why give a small percent of people unbalanced chemicals. Why take pages from their text book and give everyone the same test? And im not just talking about depression, I am also talking about the little babies who are born so disfigured they will die 98% of the time, even with surgery, breathing tubes, heart monitors etc. Why create that messed up little body, just to experience a few hours or days of pain just to die?

I have over come depression after losing my mother, that was more of a chronic depression, situational on top of having mild depression already, i fought the good fought, i left the church, and I'm much happier now then i was then, even though i still deal with mild depression everyday. But what i have left over from when i was 6 and before that, are unbalanced, unequal chemicals from either a designer, or just nature.

I don't know if you've ever truly looked around the world at the human suffering, there are true victims out there, don't you mistake it. And i'm not talking about people in america who have mental issues.

Why are you asking for opinions if you already know the answer well enough to tell others they don't? Your question is already biased as it is based on you personal basis of good and evil. So what you are really asking is for an explanation of evil and the horrors in the world and the only satisfactory answer is one which aligns with your preconceptions.

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Maybe to see how others take care for them?

the audacity of such a statement. so someone is experiencing an enormous amount of pain for YOU to feel better about your self....
narcissism.... sheer narcissism
and believers wonder why unbelievers question their rationality...

the sad part of this is the inability to understand how such a statement is taken as a hostile remark.

[Orias]

Originally Posted by AntEmpire

Already been said more or less. to which i respond.

So if god knows about us he's a jerk, he just wanted to see how people would treat each other so he made some with retardations etc?

More like man made others with cognitive disabilities, the fault is none but our own.

[Kilgore Trout]

Depression is just caused by too many body thetans. Tom Cruise knows this. Don't you want to be happy like Tom Cruise?