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  #131  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:09 PM
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Indeed initially created without suffering. However choice is there as well, because God doesn't want robots.

God gave us choice. This choice that was acted upon by free will is sin which is human will. Sin altered the world in which death entered, and now the weakest now die, or what is survival of the fittest. Human will has changed the world, and thus natural disease is a reality now. Nature is conspiring for death essentially now.
Creatures have been living and dying since before humanity ever came around. The fossil record proves it. There were even mass extinction events where most of life on Earth was killed. Sin did not create suffering and death; suffering and death were inherent parts of life on this planet with or without humans.

So that is an incorrect claim.
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  #132  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:10 PM
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Creatures have been living and dying since before humanity ever came around. The fossil record proves it. There were even mass extinction events where most of life on Earth was killed. Sin did not create suffering and death; suffering and death were inherent parts of life on this planet with or without humans.

So that is an incorrect claim.
This is taking a view based on assumptions that pretend uniformitarianism/darwinian evolution as the be-all-end-all of fossil interpretation.
I don't agree with those assumptions.
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  #133  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:16 PM
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This is taking a view based on assumptions that pretend uniformitarianism/darwinian evolution as the be-all-end-all of fossil interpretation.
I don't agree with those assumptions.
How do you end up with fossils if nothing dies before humans came around?
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  #134  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:17 PM
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How do you end up with fossils if nothing dies before humans came around?
How do you determine that there were fossils before humans?
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  #135  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:26 PM
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How do you determine that there were fossils before humans?
Applied chemistry/physics.
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  #136  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:27 PM
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Applied chemistry.
That's not enough. Try elaborating so we can have a dialogue here please.
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  #137  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:27 PM
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This is taking a view based on assumptions that pretend uniformitarianism/darwinian evolution as the be-all-end-all of fossil interpretation.
I don't agree with those assumptions.
So you have to deny reality for your beliefs to be coherent.

That's one of the reasons for lack of belief in your god.
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  #138  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:28 PM
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So you have to deny reality for your beliefs to be coherent.

That's one of the reasons for lack of belief in your god.
That really isn't a coherent argument in the affirmative for your position.
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  #139  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:29 PM
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That really isn't a coherent argument in the affirmative for your position.
Perhaps not.
But it IS a damn good reason for lack of belief in your god.
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  #140  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:31 PM
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I noticed, Subby, that you have not presented a post of yours that you think challenges any of the items in post 79.
Rather telling, don't you think?
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