Why does God allow bad things to happen

[idea]

Originally Posted by PolyHedral

So why is He taking so long about it? It's not hard when you can rebuild large portions of the universe on a whim.


I don't know about you, but I'm not a god. If I was, I'd have fixed all the problems by now. (And the answer to your last question is probably "Nowhere.")

God is not the slow one, we are... God will not go against our agency, He cannot force anyone to heaven.

You are not a god yet.... Nevertheless, I think God sees what we can become, and therefore views us in a different light than we view ourselves in.

[idea]

Originally Posted by Nerthus

God excepts us to be in terrible pain, through no fault of our own, and still be as charming and lovely as ever?!

Jesus, in terrible pain, was still charming... he worried about others more than himself, while on the cross - he worried about his mother, and John - John, take Mary to be your mother he says - while on the cross.... that we could become as loving, selfless, and perfect as Jesus would be glorious.

I know who I am. Facing death may open peoples lives to what they would be missing - enjoying life, spending time with loved ones, but I don't need pain and suffering to show me my personality.

We all think we know who we are, but thoughts/ideas are not enough... it's not until we go through everything, face everything, that we can know for sure how we will really react to everything. It's not proven until it has really happened.

People with no faith still experience and endure the same things as a Christian would.

We are all God's children, there is no difference between Christians, and non Christians - we all go through the test, we all see what we are made of.

Besides, if that's what God wants - us to truat no matter what etc, why does he still let people suffer? Or those who were already perfected, then thrown cancer to deal with too? Again, hardly fair.

God wants us to be strong - strong character, strong love... stregnth comes through fighting. There has to be something to test you, to show you how strong your character is. Cancer teaches patience, humility, shows you who loves you and who is willing to take care of you, it takes you out of the hustle and bustle of life so you have time to pray, it helps you gain an appreciation of health - for we gain a deeper appreciation of things when we know their opposite.

No, it's our conscious that speaks to us. I know killing is wrong, I don't need God to tell me that. I know putting my hand on a hot stove is wrong.

You know these things are wrong, because God taught you they are wrong. You may not now realize that it was God teaching you these things, but it was, it was God, it was the light of Christ, that is how everyone knows right from wrong.

What about someone with a mental illness. That can affect someone's thinking and may make them believe that killing is right - where is God helping them out then?

Those with mental illness are also given to us to teach us... Can we have compassion on all? can we forgive all? we are all mentally ill, we all have gaps in our understanding, we all need more experience to gain a more complete understanding.

You've said that God is letting us suffer, and it's for good reason. How anyone could think that that God is loving, when allowing or 'testing' people is this way beyond me.

The most unloving, hateful thing God could do is deprive us of the experiences that awaken our inner being... to deprive us of the experiences which allow us to progress is unloving. God loves us. He wants the best for us. He wants to refine us. He wants us to progress, and become as He is.

[idea]

Originally Posted by jmvizanko

You know that is the case for every child that god lets die how exactly? And even if that is the case, why put them through excruciating pain before they die, as some diseases do? Why not just give them a heart attack or something?

God knows who we are from the premortal world. Before our spirits came to Earth, we lived with Him, He knew us, and knew the experiences that would best refine us.

It is the case -
(New Testament | Matthew19:14)
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

(New Testament | Mark10:15)
Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

(Old Testament | Psalms127:3)
children are an heritage of the LORD

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

We gain a deep appreciation of what we have experienced the opposite of...

(New Testament | Revelation21:4)
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more cpain: for the former things are passed away.

Future joy is made more sweet after we pass through present tribulation.... would you rob someone of a greater appreciation - of a greater joy - by robbing them of the experiences that would bring them that joy?

[Thief]

Originally Posted by PolyHedral

I don't know about you, but I'm not a god. If I was, I'd have fixed all the problems by now. (And the answer to your last question is probably "Nowhere.")

So you don't understand....
'Do not conform to this world...be transformed by it.'

The form you have will fail.
The next life is made of a spiritual form.

oh, that's right you don't expect to go anywhere.

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Originally Posted by idea

Agency - taking away our agency, our mind, our ability to act, is worse than anything we could do to one another. God would be a monster if he took away the agency of anyone.

Test - this life is a test, those who pass the test will be given more power. Those who cannot handle what they are given here, will be given less power, so they will be unable to hurt anyone.

The test has to be real.... "I might have thought that, but I would have never done it..." - "yes, you would have done it, see, given the opportunity, you actually did it..."

This does not address my concern of "why god allows widespread, and often very cruel, suffering to occur."

case in point:
Alma14:10 - 11
10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.
11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.


To show what we are made of, we have to actually go through the things, and show what we are made of...
not just an "idea" - a reality... not "I love you enough to die for you" but rather, "I love you so much, I actually died for you".... there is a big difference between an idea, and a reality, don't you agree? It's not just a thought experiment... it has to be real. We have to prove ourselves...


Would you give power to anyone who had not first proven themselves?
Would you withhold power from those who given the chance, would show themselves worthy of honor and greatness?

Some will become Gods... some angels.... others will reamin as nothing more than spirits, spirits without a body who cannot touch matter - and cannot hurt anyone...

Who in the world is Amulek, and how the hell does this post even remotely answer my question?

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Only one that I can think of is that He's not able to stop it.

Would that mean, then, that God is a sort of "local" god, being in a particular place at any given time, rather than being omnipresent?

Originally Posted by idea

If you were given the choice of what test to be given, what would you choose? Personally I would choose an illness, rather than having to deal with forgiving someone for something.

Do you not realize that comments such as these serve to discredit what little weight your arguments already carry?

[jmvizanko]

Originally Posted by idea

God knows who we are from the premortal world. Before our spirits came to Earth, we lived with Him, He knew us, and knew the experiences that would best refine us.

It is the case -
(New Testament | Matthew19:14)
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

(New Testament | Mark10:15)
Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

(Old Testament | Psalms127:3)
children are an heritage of the LORD

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

We gain a deep appreciation of what we have experienced the opposite of...

(New Testament | Revelation21:4)
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more cpain: for the former things are passed away.

Future joy is made more sweet after we pass through present tribulation.... would you rob someone of a greater appreciation - of a greater joy - by robbing them of the experiences that would bring them that joy?

I'm sorry, but could you please tell me why being tortured and then killed after barely getting a glimpse of the world is the best way to refine anybody? And if god knew me before this life, I certainly don't know anything of it.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by Mercy Not Sacrifice

Would that mean, then, that God is a sort of "local" god, being in a particular place at any given time, rather than being omnipresent?

Not necessarily. Omnipresent doesn't have to go hand in hand with omnipotent.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by Mercy Not Sacrifice
God is a sort of "local" god, being in a particular place at any given time, rather than being omnipresent?

I am an Orthodox Hindu Yogi, and I shall chime in:
a] The definition of God is He is both omnipresent & omnipotent.
b] The definition of God is He is expanding His own Personal Energy to creat & maintain the Cosmos ---yet without any loss of creative/omnipotent powers.
c] The definition of God is He is present in three ways:
---Brahman (The Void);
---Param-atma (The localised nucleus/Soul of all animate & Inanimate things);
---Bhagavan (The original First person who is unlimitedlt full in ALL-Opulences) {this would be a Persona Suprema ~Not an Inanimate object};

[PolyHedral]

Originally Posted by Thief

So you don't understand....
'Do not conform to this world...be transformed by it.'

The form you have will fail.
The next life is made of a spiritual form.

oh, that's right you don't expect to go anywhere.

Got any physical evidence to back that up? Because I have far more rigorous reasoning that suggests your wrong.

Originally Posted by idea

God is not the slow one, we are... God will not go against our agency, He cannot force anyone to heaven.

"Hey, guys, who wants to get instantly teleported to Heaven?"

No force involved.

You are not a god yet.... Nevertheless, I think God sees what we can become, and therefore views us in a different light than we view ourselves in.

Do we have free will, or don't we?

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Not necessarily. Omnipresent doesn't have to go hand in hand with omnipotent.

Oh OK. So god could be everywhere, but he is not omnipotent?