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  #71  
Old 08-28-2010, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TEXASBULL View Post
ding ding ding! winner

This means one of the stories is FALSE.

That is the problem with the entire bible. The contradictions.

If your have 4 accounts of one story and they are all different. Which one is TRUE , which on is FALSE. Do we close our eyes and throw darts at a board to figure which one we go with
In this case, no. There is no contradiction. The other Gospels do not state that there were no guards. They may suggest there were known, but they never state that there weren't.

This is part of history. If we look at the accounts of Augustus, we see differences. Do we label one account as false then? No, that isn't logical. We search to see whether or not it is plausible. We search to see why it may be added. It is much more than just simply labeling one false and the other true.
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  #72  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fallingblood
The idea of the empty tomb rests on the assumption, which Paul subscribed to, that Jesus was resurrected. That is the the point of the empty tomb, that Jesus was resurrected. If Jesus was resurrected, there was an empty tomb. There is no reason that Paul would have to state this.
But 1) which tomb, 2) who saw the body put in a specific tomb, 3) were guards posted at the tomb, 4) why was the tomb empty, 5) is it plausible that the body was moved, 6) who were Paul's sources, and 7) aren't at least some of Paul's plausibly later interpolations?

The very first thing that we need to reasonably establish is to determine where the body was buried. What credible historical evidence do you have the body was put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb? I am not aware of any.

Even if the body was put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, if guards were not posted at the tomb, which was probably the case, that greatly increases the probability that it was moved.
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  #73  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:22 AM
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Edit: Deletion of unnecessary post.

Last edited by Agnostic75; 12-10-2010 at 08:20 AM..
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  #74  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Agnostic75 View Post
But 1) which tomb, 2) who saw the body put in a specific tomb, 3) were guards posted at the tomb, 4) why was the tomb empty, 5) is it plausible that the body was moved, 6) who were Paul's sources, and 7) aren't at least some of Paul's plausibly later interpolations?

The very first thing that we need to reasonably establish is to determine where the body was buried. What credible historical evidence do you have the body was put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb? I am not aware of any.

Even if the body was put in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, if guards were not posted at the tomb, which was probably the case, that greatly increases the probability that it was moved.
We don't need to know where the body was buried. For all we know, it could be like John Dominic Crossan states, that his body was left for the dogs.

However, there is some reason to believe that it was placed in a tomb. The first is that it would not be expected. From my knowledge, we have one victim of crucifixion that we have found that was placed in a tomb. Most likely, the rest were left for either scavenging animals, or placed in shallow graves. So it is not what we would expect.

More so, the witnesses to the empty tomb were women. Which is strange as it is not what we would expect either considering how reliable a woman's testimony was considered during that time.

So there is some information that would suggest a possible burial. At the same time, it could be a story created simply to save Jesus from some of the embarrassment that went along with his death.

What we know is that something happened. Something happened to Paul that made him change his opinion and go from persecuting the Jesus movement, to becoming a leader. There is something that happened to the disciples to make them continue with the Jesus movement, even though we would expect them to disband shortly after the death of their leader.

There is also that the idea that Jesus was placed in a tomb was quite common during the first century. We know that it was a common idea partly because of Matthew. There is a reason why Matthew changes the story and places guards at the tomb. That is because a rumor had arisen that someone stole the body of Jesus. So Matthew makes an argument as to why that is impossible. It would also be possible that Matthew simply had a more accurate source, but I don't give much credence to that.

It is also a possibility that if Jesus was placed in a tomb, they simply did not know which one. So it would be possible that they went to the wrong tomb, saw it empty, and the story started.

So there are a lot of variables here. But one thing we can be relatively sure about is that something did impact both Paul and the disciples, and it is quite plausible that Paul got some of his information from Peter.
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  #75  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:36 PM
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How likely is it that people believe what they read in The Bible because they were told from a young age that they are true stories?
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  #76  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dogsgod View Post
How likely is it that people believe what they read in The Bible because they were told from a young age that they are true stories?
Or how likely is it that Christ-Mythers only can make short little comments with out any real substance?

Instead of always making belittling comments, why not try to support your position. I have posted in depth discussion on two of the pillars that Price uses for the Christ myth, as in the account on Josephus, and what Paul had to say about Jesus (which Oberon also supplied great information in). Maybe it would be worth your time to offer a rebuttal to those threads.
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  #77  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:37 PM
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To answer the question: it's just as likely that soldiers guarded the tomb as not.
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