Question for "Jewish Atheists"

[Magic Man]

Thanks, Auto. Those are all my thoughts exactly. It's just nice to have them supported by someone who is actually Jewish and an atheist.

I have also tried the Nazi approach. She is very stubborn. I don't think she even really listens. I wouldn't normally care, as usually I just let it go since it doesn't really matter. It's just that she then brought it back up the next night around others, basically (although not in so many words) saying how stupid an idea a Jewish atheist was. She wasn't really mean about it so much, but it just made me want to really show her what she wasn't seeing. I have sent her several links between yesterday and today, all explaining it better than I could, but still nothing.

[Caladan]

I am a secular Jewish person. I am a Jewish also because of the demands of reality, although a non practicing one when it comes to religion (even though when one lives in a Jewish society, you will at least get to do some of the Jewish traditions).
I am a Jewish person from the long history of my people, and from my culture.
one of the mottoes from the Israeli hymn is 'to be a free people in our land', well to be a free people in our land also means to be an Atheist, an observant person, etc.
reality demands us to be Jewish from all aspects, Jews have been persecuted because they are Jewish, as Autodidact said: it doesnt matter if they were completely assimilated and non practicing Jews or not. I feel related to the achievements of my people, I feel related to Jewish folklore, and even to biblical wisdom, despite my largely historiographic outlook on scriptures.
I believe that at large being Jewish is a cultural matter which may encompass the religious, and ethnic aspects.
my native language is Hebrew, and although studying like most people in Israel in a secular school, all the school years we had a bible class, because the bible is the heritage of our people, regardless if we are religious or atheists.
I even feel Jewish when I read about early Christianity and the New Testament, because I can see the Jewish fingerprints, even when I read the Qur'an I can see the fingerprints of Jewish tradition which I recognize in some kind of intuitive manner.

[Elessar]

Judaism is both an ethnicity and a faith, and also a culture, at least, from my perspective.

An ethnic Jew is someone whose father (per Sephardic tradition) or mother (per Ashkenazi tradition) is an ethnic Jew. As the Torah discusses adopted offspring being completely equal to biological offspring in every way, I would consider someone who was born a gentile and then adopted by Jewish parents to be ethnically Jewish. Again, I don't really speak for any significant group here, I'm just saying it as I understand and believe.

A religious Jew is someone who follows the monotheistic Jewish faith, following the Tanakh and at least a good amount of the religious traditions of our ancestors (Reform and Reconstruction Judaism tend to skirt the line between religious and cultural Judaism, and parts of them fall on both sides).

A cultural Jew is someone who actively participates in Jewish society, takes part in Jewish traditions, etc. A cultural Jew and a religious Jew are mutually exclusive from my perspective, so a cultural Jew would be someone who rejects the Jewish faith but remains tied to his Jewish roots - for example, a practitioner of Buddhism who still celebrated Chanukah and Purim with his family would be a cultural Jew, and an ethnic Jew, but not a religious Jew.

For one example of a "non-religious Jew" as it were, someone often proclaimed loudly and clearly as a name among Jews and definitely not a religious Jew, I would place the First Earl Beaconsfield, Benjamin Disraeli (UK Prime Minister, 1868, 1874-1880), as an ethnic Jew, as he was a practicing Anglican for most of his life. He may even qualify as a cultural Jew, though that is harder to define before the rise of Reconstruction Judaism in the next century.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Elessar

A cultural Jew is someone who actively participates in Jewish society, takes part in Jewish traditions, etc. A cultural Jew and a religious Jew are mutually exclusive from my perspective, ...

Sadly, it is a perspective that simply dismisses Mordechai Kaplan.

[Elessar]

I have great respect for Rabbi Kaplan, but he was not a religious Jew from my perspective. A general deism or even naturalism as he held later in life was not religious Judaism. Earlier in life, he was a religious Jew, but he eventually became a cultural Jew. There's nothing wrong with that. Whatever he felt is correct is okay, everyone has the right to choose their own beliefs.

Now, of course, what I mean by a cultural Jew is someone who is no longer religiously Jewish, but accepts Jewish culture and society. I consider them mutually exclusive from the perspective that religious Jews are naturally tied to tradition...though, again, that's arguable. As we all know, for the 13.2 million Jews on the planet, there are 19.8 million opinions on Judaism (Two Jews, Three Opinions ).

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Elessar

I have great respect for Rabbi Kaplan, but he was not a religious Jew from my perspective.

Perhaps you have a narrow and self-serving definition of religion. When is the last time you were at a Reconstructionist Shabbat service?

[Elessar]

Perhaps so. I may be incorrect, as I have not been to a Reconstruction service in many years (though have been to those of all other major movements in the last few months), so I have to rely primarily on second-hand reports and on my admittedly limited knowledge of Rabbi Kaplan's writings. Though, I did say in my first post that Reconstruction and Reform synagogues are hard to interpret and an individual congregation and an individual Reform or Reconstruction Jew could be on either side of the line. What I mean by someone who is Jewish *culturally* is that they are not a religious Jew, in that they reject the standard Jewish interpretation of G-d in favor of a deistic, atheistic, naturalist, Buddhist, etc. philosophy not exclusively based on the Torah and interpretations/extrapolations thereof.

A better way to put what I meant was is that a religious Jew is a cultural Jew by definition, but not all who are Jews culturally are Jews religiously. So, if you call someone culturally Jewish, you are explicitly implying they are not religiously Jewish, as to say a "cultural and religious Jew" would be repetitious, since the latter implies the former.

I do not pretend to have all knowledge, and freely admit my interpretations could be incorrect.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Elessar

A better way to put what I meant was is that a religious Jew is a cultural Jew by definition, but not all who are Jews culturally are Jews religiously.

Therefore?

[Elessar]

It doesn't really matter. My point is that Judaism is not solely a religion, which is what the OP is talking about.