Reason and self (mystic, experience, theology)

[mostly harmless]

I found this little tidbit that I thought was really interesting while reading a book...

Just thought I'd put it out there to see what ya'll thought.


Reason is the sleep of fools, and the self is a mirage.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by mostly harmless

I found this little tidbit that I thought was really interesting while reading a book...

Just thought I'd put it out there to see what ya'll thought.


Reason is the sleep of fools, and the self is a mirage.

Reason is the yoke of social reality. And social reality is power.

The self is a useful mirage . . . to those who know how to use it.

[Guitar's Cry]

What book did this come from? What context was it presented in?

My initial interpretation is that the author was stating that reason, as the "...sleep of fools...," cannot be trusted. Indeed, reason has before been argued as being derived from emotions (though I don't completely share this view), which are often illogical, or at least lead to illogical conclusions. That reason is biased - as the reasoning individual is always biased - is inescapable.

Or perhaps the author was taking a stab at the Age of Reason, during which time many great philosophers were meditating on the great questions of humanity - including the Self.

[Sunstone]

"Reason is the sleep of fools and the self is a mirage."

That sounds to me like the statement of a mystic, or at least someone who has experienced a sudden end to subject/object perception. Compare it to Rumi's Ode 314:

Those who don't feel this Love
pulling them like a river,
those who don't drink dawn
like a cup of spring water
or take in sunset like supper,
those who don't want to change,
let them sleep.
This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
I you want to improve your mind that way,
sleep on.
I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.
If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you,
and sleep.

[s2a]

Originally Posted by mostly harmless

I found this little tidbit that I thought was really interesting while reading a book...

Just thought I'd put it out there to see what ya'll thought.


Reason is the sleep of fools, and the self is a mirage.

To my caveman sensibilities, it strikes me as so much Jabberwocky.

[eudaimonia]

Originally Posted by mostly harmless

Reason is the sleep of fools, and the self is a mirage.

Reason is the glory of Man, and the self is dynamic.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[mostly harmless]

Originally Posted by s2a

To my caveman sensibilities, it strikes me as so much Jabberwocky.

It struck my caveman boyfriend that way too.

[mostly harmless]

Originally Posted by Guitar's Cry

What book did this come from? What context was it presented in?

My initial interpretation is that the author was stating that reason, as the "...sleep of fools...," cannot be trusted. Indeed, reason has before been argued as being derived from emotions (though I don't completely share this view), which are often illogical, or at least lead to illogical conclusions. That reason is biased - as the reasoning individual is always biased - is inescapable.

Or perhaps the author was taking a stab at the Age of Reason, during which time many great philosophers were meditating on the great questions of humanity - including the Self.

It is a fictional book, and a character is speaking of another character who can see angels and those who have crossed over and such...and this 'seer' had told her that the angels say that reason is the sleep of fools and the self is a mirage. This particular statement was made because the 'seer' had been saying how the angels like to impart wisdom on her.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by eudaimonia

...the self is dynamic.

The self is dynamic because, rather than being an object, it is a process. A dynamic self is built in to the very way the self originates and is sustained.