Why The Middle East ? (followers, minority, creation, America, Israel)

[michel]

A rather good Journalist was asked this morning (on T.V) why we, in the West, are so obsessed with "The middle East".

This came up after he mentioned that Burma is a complete unknown - because no reporters are allowed there, very few dare to try and pose as tourists.

He was mentioning that there are vast swathes throughout the World where there are atrocities habitually being carried out, and we "don't seem to care".

The reason he gave (and I loved the words he used to describe it), was that the Middle East is the meeting point of the political and economic "Tectonic Plates" of the World, as seen by us in the West.

The fact that so many Weatern Countries have a large population of Jews, Arabs and Palestinians have made the Middle East "Part of us".........I thought this was very insightful; thoughts ?

[Djamila]

I don't agree at all. I think it's religious in nature. The United States, for example, has more Arabs and Muslims than Jews, as far as I'm aware, but they're still adamantly pro-Israeli, even more so than Israel itself in many instances.

Canada, especially Quebec, has enormous numbers of anti-Israeli Jews and Lebanese Muslims. The conservative government in power refused to condemn Israel for its actions in Lebanon, and support for that party in Quebec and Eastern Canada dropped instantly. It remains truly popular only in the more religious, and overwhelmingly Christian, West.

In the European sense there is a colonial heritage. Europe itself is just as concerned with Africa as the Middle East, even though this doesn't transcend to North America - nor is it even visible in North America.

So I'd say it comes down to religion and colonialism.

Not to mention oil.

[Sunstone]

The Middle East baffles and frustrates me. Why can't they work things out?

[michel]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Djamila

In the European sense there is a colonial heritage. Europe itself is just as concerned with Africa as the Middle East, even though this doesn't transcend to North America - nor is it even visible in North America.

Just as concerned with Africa ???

There has been civil war in the centre of Africa since 1959; do you hear aboput the atrocities daily ? Sure, one or two regions are highlighted (Darfur, Ghana, Ethiopia), but you never really heat much about the Congo - one of the largest countries in Africa.

So I'd say it comes down to religion and colonialism.

Religion ? I honestly don't think anyone in the West has a problem with either Muslims or Followers of judaism. Don't forget that here in England, almost every large town has a synagogue and a Mosque.........

Not to mention oil.

That, of course, is a very valid point; we all need oil (much as it is destroying our world). The problem of what kind of energy we should go for must be one of the greatest quandaries........and yet, they make bigger and bigger airplanes (never mind the Ozone layer).

[Djamila]

When you mix a culture that holds pride as a virtue with actions by certain countries in the world that serve to favor the region's smallest minority over its overwhelming majority, you're bound to have problems. Israel being established after the Second World War was enough of a blow to the Arab world, pair that with Israel's constant territorial expansion and it's no surprise they view it as a cancer.

The West seems to think the past can be ignored and now we can work on an unjust peace. But that logic doesn't exist in most cultures - certainly not in Europe, and even less in the Middle East. Older countries have longer memories and while the American government seems to try to work with the Palestinians as though everything before the Oslo agreement didn't happen, the Palestinians and the wider Arab world are unwilling to do that.

It's the same thing that happened in Rwanda and, to a lesser extent, in the Balkans. It's no coincidence to me that every national group in the Balkans that became a victim of genocide was, prior to that genocide, favored by the powers that be and their foreign allies.

Israel cannot last as it is now forever. They will either make a just peace with the Palestinians, and greatly lessen their negative impact on their Arab hosts, or they will continue on the path of ethnic cleansing and territorial conquest, which will inevitably lead to their destruction.

Either of these two scenarios will do a great deal towards bringing peace to the Middle East, although for the most part the damage has been done. The creation of Israel, and the West's support for it, has already severed the Arab and Western world permanantly. Whether they can find a cold war type of existence remains to be seen, but it will never be like it was before 1948.

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by michel

That, of course, is a very valid point; we all need oil (much as it is destroying our world). The problem of what kind of energy we should go for must be one of the greatest quandaries........and yet, they make bigger and bigger airplanes (never mind the Ozone layer).

We agree on something.

[michel]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Israel cannot last as it is now forever. They will either make a just peace with the Palestinians, and greatly lessen their negative impact on their Arab hosts, or they will continue on the path of ethnic cleansing and territorial conquest, which will inevitably lead to their destruction.

On that point, we will have to agree to differ;

they will continue on the path of ethnic cleansing and territorial conquest, which will inevitably lead to their destruction.

I just don't see that as being representative. I think that Israel only wants peace; sure, it is a 'magnet' for all the Jews World Wide (who have been denied their own 'country' for so long; but are they malicious ? I don't know. It is probably down to whio threw the first stone; obviously Israel will say Palestine, and vise versa.

They will either make a just peace with the Palestinians, and greatly lessen their negative impact on their Arab hosts

That, of course, would be wonderful. But how long would it take ? What would each side have to agree to, that would satisfy both parties ?

Here in England, we have the case of Ireland; the problems there started in 1660, and the peace between the North and South is tenuous; if that is anything to go by............

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by michel

Here in England, we have the case of Ireland; the problems there started in 1660, and the peace between the North and South is tenuous; if that is anything to go by............

Good example! Firstly, do you see what I mean about how debating the Palestinian problem beginning at the Oslo agreement won't work? Imagine trying to start the debate about Ireland from when they died of hunger strikes in prison? Everyone there would think you were mad.

I don't know the solution for Northern Ireland. We have a lot of close ties, shared universities and cultural exchanges and things. There was even a play here that did very well, "**** the Pope and his army!" - hahaha.

I have no idea what the solution there would be. Britain is not doing the same things Israel is. If they were demolishing Irish homes and moving even more Britons into the area, and holding the whole of Ireland (Republic of Ireland) under martial law, then it would be more clear what needs to be done. But there isn't really many gross violations of human rights there as there is in Israel/Palestine.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Good example! Firstly, do you see what I mean about how debating the Palestinian problem beginning at the Oslo agreement won't work? Imagine trying to start the debate about Ireland from when they died of hunger strikes in prison? Everyone there would think you were mad.

I don't know the solution for Northern Ireland. We have a lot of close ties, shared universities and cultural exchanges and things. There was even a play here that did very well, "**** the Pope and his army!" - hahaha.

I have no idea what the solution there would be. Britain is not doing the same things Israel is. If they were demolishing Irish homes and moving even more Britons into the area, and holding the whole of Ireland (Republic of Ireland) under martial law, then it would be more clear what needs to be done. But there isn't really many gross violations of human rights there as there is in Israel/Palestine.

Well, I understand your perspective, but I disagree with it. You are (obviously) seeing this from the position of a Muslim - and that is natural; I see it as 'an eye for an eye' from both camps. I certainly don't see Israel in the same light as you do.