Dogs: Tips for Correction and Obedience (punishment, experience)

[Flappycat]

Something that I've found is that heavy affection can work wonders with establishing dominance roles. Taking a dominant position in showing affection, such as wrapping your arms around the dog and putting some of your weight on him or her, seems to be received well. Also, contact intensive displays of affection seem to work well in building bonds and trust between a dog and its owner that help the dog to understand disciplinary cuffs as they are intended rather than taking them as aggression. A dog that doesn't trust its owner implicitly may take attempts to get it away from a trash mess it has created as a rival dog's transgression upon its territory, but a dog that trusts its owner is more likely to be cooperative.

As with children, beatings are out of the question. No dog is going to respond well to an act that turns into an attack upon it or its dignity. There is a world of difference between a disciplinary cuff on the side of a dog's snout, parallel to a slap on the wrist to correct a young child, and actual beating. If a dog is afraid that it will be beaten severely for causing trouble, it will reliably hide from its owner when it knows it has made a mess and will become dangerously defensive to escape excessive punishment. Although a dog will also wish to escape more moderate corrective measures, a healthy dominant role of the owner in the relationship is enough to override fear of a sane, rational scolding, even knowing that it won't like what it's in for, as with a child that would rather take a relatively endurable scolding than soil his or her relationship with a parent. As with children, pantomiming a swat can be as effective as actual contact if it is reinforced often enough to ascertain its meaning.

Yelling angrily at a dog will only be taken for what it is. However, sharply inflected tones can be helpful. Getting one of our dogs to sit and stay while I'm opening the door to take her out, for example, sometimes requires a sharp repetition of the command if she is excited. This is harmless in itself and is useful for getting through the message, but anything that actually makes the dog afraid of you is not going to be helpful in building a trusting relationship.

Obedience training in the context of play is also useful. It positively reinforces obedience to commands, and it is a good format in which to convey to the dog that sharp tones are more an intensification of a command than a sign of anger. It is also a good forum for airing light cuffs as well-intentioned corrections. A dog that knows it is at play will not respond negatively to light cuffs on the snout in my experience, and I honestly think that it makes them more likely to take real world correction better than if the motions of correction had not been introduced in the positive format of playful obedience training (the "sit, stay, roll over, fetch" routines).

Play is also a good place to teach a dog what you mean when you tell it to stay, and a firm but gentle and well-meaning hand can easily teach most dogs to wait until released from staying by command to go running after a thrown object. The dog should be brought to the point that it will sit and wait voluntarily and without the necessity of holding its collar, even from a distance. Our labrador retriever is so well-trained in this that, though she will whine and squirm, she will not pursue a thrown object after being told to stay until given the releasing command. For fun, we taught her not to even be fooled by similar-sounding words, such as "beck," "feck," or "wreck." Curiously, she seems to have so much fun with the mental aspect of the game that she will become more irrepresable than ever after being taken through a few series of false commands. It seems that mental exercise is as good for dogs as for humans.

I have had so much luck with contact heavy physical affection, cuddling, that I want to stress again that this does seem to be an efficient way of building a good relationship between dog and owner. From what I have found, it seems that licking of the face is a form of social transaction between dogs, and I don't think that it should necessarily be discouraged. Dog saliva isn't going to harm one, and it's worth the messiness to have a better chance of having an understanding relationship between oneself and the dog.

Since honing my methods down to what I have, I have never had an animal respond negatively to correction at all as long as I applied it properly, and obedience to commands is very reliable. In fact, it has worked so well that our dogs have not caused any extensive difficulties since they were pups, and I measure based on a life of experience with dogs.

What have your experiences with dogs been?

[Aqualung]

I beat my dog and he's very loyal and very loving. Of course, I also gave him love and affection when he was doing good. The whole don't-beat-animals thing is very overrated, because people do it wrong. You can't just beat your dog when he's being bad; you have to love him when he's being good. Other than that, your experiences and mine have been fairly similar. Though again, I think I raise a dog differently than you do, or rather, I see a dog as a different part of the family than you do.

[Flappycat]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I beat my dog and he's very loyal and very loving. Of course, I also gave him love and affection when he was doing good. The whole don't-beat-animals thing is very overrated, because people do it wrong. You can't just beat your dog when he's being bad; you have to love him when he's being good. Other than that, your experiences and mine have been fairly similar. Though again, I think I raise a dog differently than you do, or rather, I see a dog as a different part of the family than you do.

I wasn't necessarily saying not to, aqualung. The point was that beatings shouldn't be so severe that the animal will harm its owner in order to avoid them, and whether a dog will or will not react in this way depends upon how much vested interest it has in maintaining a positive relationship with its owner. An owner who showed a dog no affection at all wouldn't be able to correct the animal at all without chancing getting bitten, even if another human actually does show it affection...as with a dog my sister once had who could only be controlled by my sister and father, apparently because they were the only two who paid the dog any positive attention at all. The dog wasn't unhealthy or unhappy, but he absolutely hated myself, my younger brother, and, to a lesser degree, my mother.

I advised swats on the side of the snout because that seems, for me, to be the more effective vehicle for correction. My reason for preferring this is that it is easier, with this, to clearly pantomime the movement, making it unnecessary to always actually strike the dog (apparently, this works just as well if properly reinforced on occassion). The point remains that the amount of affection you show the animal will play a large role in how it reacts to correction if my experiences aren't misleading, and there we seem to be in agreement. The difference between abuse and correction seems to rest heavily in how much affection the animal otherwise receives.

Aqualung, when you are putting your animal through a training session, do you also train in how to respond to corrective blows? It was my brother who started it, really, but one of our dogs actually gets slapped around during play sessions on a regular basis. Much of the play between her and my brother is serious training for her as a bird dog, so my brother is pretty demanding of her. She seems to thrive on it, though, and there never seems to be a moment that she doesn't want to play even now she's an adult. Also, of all our dogs so far, this one has both received the highest level of physical affection and been most likely to receive a swat for being troublesome. The result of demanding play, heavy affection, and frequent but generally mild physical correction (often enough pantomimed), at least for this energetic dog, seems to be almost absolutely unerring obedience and what my brother swears, seemingly with good reason, is genuine conscienciousness.

[Bangbang]

I have trained many a dog in my life and have raised dobermans and pitbulls. There is never a reason to beat a dog. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! My current Pit was trained by a retired Detyroit Police Canine Officer. She has never been beaten as is a terrific companion and watchdog.

[Atheist_Dave]

All I have done is loved my dog, walked her, hugged her, play fighted with her, she has never had a hand raised to her and she is loyal and obedient, and probably my best friend. There isnt any need to beat a dog, if you want a guard dog it needs to be loved, not toughened up by beating like lots of peopel think. I found a deep voice is affective in correction, I also tap her on the nose and this seems to work. Non beaten dogs are far more obedient than abused ones.

Peace x

[Shadow Wolf]

When I had a dog that was part wolf, I had to beat her half to death at times so she didn't view herself as alpha. She was also a very loving and loyal dog. Most dogs I have found a good stiff slap, just hard enough for them to feel a shock of being smacked, will do. But "hard enough" depends of the breed. It doesn't take much for a poddle to be hurt, but dogs like that are solid, like rotties, can take a hit and think its playful.

[Atheist_Dave]

They can tell if a hit is playful or not. Dogs like to play rough, but the moment you are angry they know the difference. All dogs are in a way part wolf, but I guess you mean a siberian husky or somehting similar? They pretty solid I must admit

Peace x

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Flappycat

I wasn't necessarily saying not to, aqualung. The point was that beatings shouldn't be so severe that the animal will harm its owner in order to avoid them, and whether a dog will or will not react in this way depends upon how much vested interest it has in maintaining a positive relationship with its owner.

Oh, I see. I guess I misunderstood.

I advised swats on the side of the snout because that seems, for me, to be the more effective vehicle for correction. My reason for preferring this is that it is easier, with this, to clearly pantomime the movement, making it unnecessary to always actually strike the dog (apparently, this works just as well if properly reinforced on occassion). The point remains that the amount of affection you show the animal will play a large role in how it reacts to correction if my experiences aren't misleading, and there we seem to be in agreement. The difference between abuse and correction seems to rest heavily in how much affection the animal otherwise receives.

Originally Posted by Flappycat

Aqualung, when you are putting your animal through a training session, do you also train in how to respond to corrective blows? It was my brother who started it, really, but one of our dogs actually gets slapped around during play sessions on a regular basis. Much of the play between her and my brother is serious training for her as a bird dog, so my brother is pretty demanding of her. She seems to thrive on it, though, and there never seems to be a moment that she doesn't want to play even now she's an adult. Also, of all our dogs so far, this one has both received the highest level of physical affection and been most likely to receive a swat for being troublesome. The result of demanding play, heavy affection, and frequent but generally mild physical correction (often enough pantomimed), at least for this energetic dog, seems to be almost absolutely unerring obedience and what my brother swears, seemingly with good reason, is genuine conscienciousness.

I'm not exactly sure what training how to respond to correctvie blows means, but what you have described is a lot like my dog. One dog I give more physical affection and more beatings, and he is definitely pretty darned loyal (except now that I've moved away he likes my mom more ). The other dog I will occaisonally give physical affection to (mostly I will just wrestle with him, and at other times give him a pat on the head), and he doesn't listen to me very well. Then again, he is never really bad and he doesn't get a lot of demand from him. For example, I never really bothered to teach him more than just sit and down. Also, he isn't quite as needy as the other dog for attention.

Does that even part way answer your question?

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Dave

All I have done is loved my dog, walked her, hugged her, play fighted with her, she has never had a hand raised to her and she is loyal and obedient, and probably my best friend. There isnt any need to beat a dog, if you want a guard dog it needs to be loved, not toughened up by beating like lots of peopel think. I found a deep voice is affective in correction, I also tap her on the nose and this seems to work. Non beaten dogs are far more obedient than abused ones.

Peace x

When you say "tap on the nose" I would count that as beating. To me, beating is just any form of physical punishment (taps on the noses included).