The American Indian and Palistinians. (Jesus, myths, church, pagan)

[benjosh]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

benjosh and john 63,(off topic)
I was told recently that either smith or young or both were members of the Freemasons , and because of that Utah ended up being the beehive state , wich is symbolic of freemasonry.Seeing as you are both on opposite sides of this question could you shed any light on it ? This is all hearsay and I have not verified any of it , just thought I would ask.

Opensoul,

I think you should realize that Joseph Smith was fair game for all kinds of associations of groups and ideas, or life styles. In other words, there was a smear campaign against him in the Nauvoo period of his life. He did not keep quiet about the members of his own church who were practicing polygamy and they tried to present him as a participant in it. But, the lies sold a lot of papers. And, reinforced the prejudices of those who had little desire for the truth of circumstances.

BenJosh

[kreeden]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

As suggested in another thread, is there a correlation between the two? The way the 1st settlers treated the American Indian, taking their land, and the way Israel is treating the Palestinians?

I believe that you are refering to a post I made . I have only skimmed over this thread and can't really reply to it right now , but I would like to explain that I don't mean to imply that the two cases were related in any way . I was just asking how far back we should go to " right a wrong " , and to what degree are we , as descendants of people who may have made a mistake responsable for those mistakes .

[michel]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I'm not Benjosh or John63 (in case you didn't notice), but Joseph Smith was a Mason at one time. I don't think Brigham Young was, but I might be wrong. However, the Beehive (Utah's state emblem) is supposed to stand for Industry. It has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

I hope this isn't a 'bad' site, but according to this Brigham Young was a Mason

Smith was already heavily into the occult prior to becoming a Mason and had published his book of Mormon in 1830, some twelve years before joining the Order. However, on 15 March, 1842, Smith received his first degree in Freemasonry, and he was raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason on the very next day. "Six weeks later, on May 2, 1842, Smith was teaching these Masonic secrets as his own "revelations" to Mormon leaders as the temple Endowment" (Chuck Sackett, What's Going On in There? Thousand Oaks, CA: Sword of the Shepherd Ministries, 1982, p.13. As taken from History of the Church {D.H.C.], Vol. 4, 550, 552). Into the fabric of Freemasonry he wove his own peculiar brand of occultism, claiming it to be "revelation" from on high. Brigham Young, the other significant early Mormon leader, was also a Mason and contributed to the rise of this occult hierarchy (W.J. McCormick, Christ, the Christian, and Freemasonry, Belfast: Great Joy Publications, 1984; p.96).

I just don't know why but Brigham Young is making bells go off.but I can't think for the life of me why.

[opensoul7]

Benjosh,
I have found that both joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both Freemasons .http://www.masonicinfo.com in the section Famous Freemasons. At nauvoo , Freemasonry flourished under Joseph smith with members in the orginization reaching over 1200 men.

[Katzpur]

[quote=michel]I hope this isn't a 'bad' site, but according to this Brigham Young was a Mason. The site looks to me to be very negatively biased against Freemasonry. From the little bit I know about Joseph Smith's connections to Masonry, it doesn't present the facts entirely accurately either. But, I suppose it is probably correct in stating that Brigham Young was a Mason. I know Freemasonry was very, very popular during that period of time. I don't see it as a problem whether he was or not, but obviously I don't share the fundamentalist right-wing Christian viewpoint on Freemasonry.

I just don't know why but Brigham Young is making bells go off.but I can't think for the life of me why.

Not sure what you mean. He succeeded Joseph Smith as the second President of the Church and was the individual who led the Mormon Pioneers on their trek across the Great Plains. He is well-known as a one of the greatest colonizer who has ever lived, and has been called "the American Moses." Were you trying to place him or what?

[benjosh]

Originally Posted by opensoul7

Benjosh,
I have found that both joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both Freemasons .http://www.masonicinfo.com in the section Famous Freemasons. At nauvoo , Freemasonry flourished under Joseph smith with members in the orginization reaching over 1200 men.

opensoul,

Please realize that from the time that Joseph Smith was born 200 years ago it has been open season on him. He was hauled into court many times on false charges and never convicted of anything. He spent a great deal of his personal income fighting malicious lawsuits aginst him and for redress of wrongs done to the church.
AMong the many things people have falsely associated with Joseph Smith were polygamy and Masonic membership. Brigham Young became Joseph's enemy because of Brigham's practice of polygamy and his Masonry.

Joseph Smith's name was most likely on Masonic rolls because of John C. Bennett, a polygamist within the church. Bennett, with the aid of Martha Brotherton tried to ruin Joseph's reputation by releasing fantastic lies to the press.
Bennett was the person who started a lodge in Nauvoo. The lodge was later disowned by Masonry because its main applicant, Bennett was a polygamist. Like Joseph Smith, Masonry didn't want anything to do with Bennett.
So, to brief, you can get practically any story you want based upon a long line of misrepresentations passed down for over 150 years.
By the same token, there is another side to the story, but it takes time and a deep love for the truth to get to the bottom of the mountain of lies.
BenJosh

[benjosh]

Originally Posted by michel

I hope this isn't a 'bad' site, but according to this Brigham Young was a Mason


I just don't know why but Brigham Young is making bells go off.but I can't think for the life of me why.

Michel, It seems to me that too many people are having bells go off because they have anti-Mormon issues.

The thread you are posting in has nothing to do with the seemingly unending need for people to put in their two cents in about Joseph Smith. . . . . a man they know nothing about. . . . . .

I believe this thread is called the american indian and Palistinians.

Joseph Smith's supposed Masonry is sure on topic.


What gives? DO you have Mormon -bashing issues?

BenJosh

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by benjosh

Michel, It seems to me that too many people are having bells go off because they have anti-Mormon issues.

The thread you are posting in has nothing to do with the seemingly unending need for people to put in their two cents in about Joseph Smith. . . . . a man they know nothing about. . . . . .

I believe this thread is called the american indian and Palistinians.

Joseph Smith's supposed Masonry is sure on topic.


What gives? DO you have Mormon -bashing issues?

BenJosh

You give it to Michel there, BenJosh. He's surely Mormon bashing! You have to watch Michel...he's one of the most narrow minded, quick to judge bandwagon jumpers here.
Oh, and you see this lump on the side of my face here? That's where I've got my tongue so firmly in my cheek that it has no further to go.

Way to get testy and jump to conclusions there, matey. Nice non-antagonistic way to try and get the thread back on topic, too.

[opensoul7]

Okay , last post off topic.
benjosh first and foremost I have nothing against Mormonism at all , or any other religion I can think of .I try and give credit where credit is due , and also hold to account the negative of human error . I do not define any group by the mistakes of the few , but fact is fact and the past is past .You learn from it and move on. That is one of many reasons God is great ! if you make a mistake or act a fool , you get to accept your behavior cause you can't change the past but you can change tomorrow . I am a Freemason , there is no ulterior motive in my asking about Joseph Smith or Brigham young , I am not a Mormon but I respect these men and am honored to have them associated with Freemasonry in any form for however long. I respect them as the important historical and religious figures they were , and because of the Mormons I have known have been good people and striving to be better! don't think Joseph Smiths reputation is tarnished by association with Freemasonry (but that is my opinion) Freemasonry is a outstanding orginization unjustly attacked by those who know nothing about it yet presume to. I am sure everyone here at this forum can respect the sad nature of intolerence .So to you sir get back to thre real topic at hand thanks for your thoughts , sorry for the distraction, and Pax & Lux.