How Far Back Should We Go ? (homosexuality, blood, sexuality, Article)

[kreeden]

I came across this article about people wanting to sue companies that had ties to slavery before 1865 . And although we all agree that slavery was wrong , and is wrong { or I assume that we all do ? } , I had to wonder if this is going a little too far ? Companies are not what they once were , any more then countries are . And yet , if profits were made from the blood of others , should those profits be returned ? What do you think ?

This article gives some background , and brings up some every good points .
http://www.usatoday.com/money/genera...eparations.htm

[kreeden]

BTW this could become a debate , and if so I hope that a Mod will move it . But for now , I'm just wondering if others view this much the same as I do ?

[Quoth The Raven]

I think it's litigation to prove a point, and I don't know how successful it will be in doing anything other than ******* off people that feel they are not responsible for something that happened that long ago. It may also put a lot of people offside, because assuming they actually win some of these cases, the end result will probably be job losses.That won't be giving anyone - regardless of ethnicity - a warm, fuzzy feeling.
We've had issues with a government apology to the aboriginals in Australia. The sentiment of the prime minister and government - and largely the sentiment of the Australian public, if the lack of turn out to 'Sorry Day' was any sort of an indicator - is that while it was all very wrong and something not to be forgotten or repeated, none of us living today is actually responsible, and I no more owe someone an apology because of government policy in 1856 than I do because my grandfather stood on their toe in line to enlist in WW2.

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by lady_lazarus

I think it's litigation to prove a point, and I don't know how successful it will be in doing anything other than ******* off people that feel they are not responsible for something that happened that long ago. It may also put a lot of people offside, because assuming they actually win some of these cases, the end result will probably be job losses.That won't be giving anyone - regardless of ethnicity - a warm, fuzzy feeling.
We've had issues with a government apology to the aboriginals in Australia. The sentiment of the prime minister and government - and largely the sentiment of the Australian public, if the lack of turn out to 'Sorry Day' was any sort of an indicator - is that while it was all very wrong and something not to be forgotten or repeated, none of us living today is actually responsible, and I no more owe someone an apology because of government policy in 1856 than I do because my grandfather stood on their toe in line to enlist in WW2.

Well put.

[kreeden]

I agree that it likely started off as trying to prove a point , although I wonder what the point was ? And I agree with what you say about being responible for something that happened long before we were born Lady L. . But it isn't quite that simple , is it ?

You bring up Australia and her handling of the aboriginal people there . If I'm not mistaken , Australia had a law that stated that no people lived there before the Europeans arrived { I'm not sure if that is still on the books or not ? } . I'm sure that the law was made to stop land claims , or to ease the settlement of land claims . But it could hardly be considered a good law . I just shook my head when I read it , and can only imagion how an aboriginal person would feel reading it .

But that is a little different . It is something more recent . Something that can and should be changed , if it wasn't been already . The question is , how far back should a country , or company be responsible for it's deeds ? After WWII , German Officers' plead of " just following orders " weren't accepted . So should the cry that it something was legal back then be acceptable ?

On the other hand , many of those companies had bought the companies that had owned the slaves . The company as we know it today may not even been around when the fore-running company had owned slaves . So are they accountable in any way ?

Now one could argue that there was slavery in Africa long before the Europeans got there . But that should leaves the question to just long long are companies / countries accountable for their past deeds ?

[ChrisP]

It's a question of attitudes. We think slavery is wrong now. Back then it was a commodity to be traded.

These days homophobia is wrong. Back then (and not so long ago) homosexuality would have you arrested perhaps shot, and at best, made a social pariah.

Attitudes shift with the times, we should all learn to live where we are now. If you spend too much time outside the now, how will you live your life?

[michel]

I notice one of you is from New Zealand, one from Australia, and (I think) one from Canada. Slavery is never even mentioned here in England.

It used to be talked about often in Belgium, because of the guilt over the slavery of the black Congolese back in the late 1800's; but here in England............never a word.

I the fact that slavery was such an important point in your culture what prompts you all to talk about it often ?

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by michel

I notice one of you is from New Zealand, one from Australia, and (I think) one from Canada. Slavery is never even mentioned here in England.

It used to be talked about often in Belgium, because of the guilt over the slavery of the black Congolese back in the late 1800's; but here in England............never a word.

I the fact that slavery was such an important point in your culture what prompts you all to talk about it often ?

I never talk about it. We have a lot of issues with the local "indigeneous" population here, due to an error on the part of your fellow English colonialists when they landed here .

They actually signed a treaty, (which we now stupidly honour ) instead of just shooting everyone and colonising everything.

I use quotes round indigeneous because every race that lives here has emigrated at one point or another. It's just a matter of when the various waves of immigrants arrived.

I'm now a 7th generation NZer and am told I am a second class citizen so that really gets my wind up. There are all sorts of scholarships and grants and special ways around rules like fishing quotas etc. for Maori, but noone else gets anything. I'm sick of living in the past. If we keep thinking about the past, how can we plan for the future.

Things like this are divisive and do a disservice to humanities unity. We spend so much time catering to every possible culture and personal view, pandering, mollycoddling and generally pampering everyone who puts out their hand and whines enough. Ultimately it should be a personal responsibility to make what you want happen yourself. (Go get it yourself).

Politics should deal with 3 things. Advancing our understanding of ourselves. Maintaining order (policing). Quality of life (Education Health) and that's it. These are the things that are important to everyone regardless of any political or social orientation. They might not be top of the list for everyone, but they will carry weight with anyone but people who live outside our current structures, and to them any laws or support are irrelevant anyway.

Sorry about this long winded slightly angry ramble. This is pretty much the blast of button to push for me.