Religious Education Forum  

Welcome to Religious Forums
Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!

Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Everything But the Kitchen Sink / General Discussion
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-10-2005, 11:14 AM
michel's Avatar
michel Offline
Religion: Christian Gnostic
Title:Administrator Emeritus
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers for your work on the newsletter and is well deserved. Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Research Award:  - Issue reason:  Article Award:  - Issue reason:  Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: U.K
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,062
Frubals: 1158699
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
Default The monster paedophile

Pt 1
For 80 days, 12-year-old Sabine Dardenne was kept captive in the cellar of Marc Dutroux, the psychopathic paedophile known as the 'Monster of Belgium'. Nine years on, she talks to Susannah Herbert about her ordeal

Sabine Dardenne was abducted when she was 12

It's the word 'victim'," says Sabine Dardenne, drawing an ashtray towards her before lighting the first of many Marlboros. "I hate it. People tend to say of me, 'Ah yes, the victim of…' And I want to reply: 'No I'm not just the victim of…' I have a name. I am Sabine Dardenne and, OK, I'm not like everyone else, because we each have our own past. But I am not a circus animal." She laughs at the ridiculousness of it all but her exasperation is clear.

Sabine Dardenne's laughter is her most unsettling feature. She laughs so frequently, leaning forward over the coffee table in the hotel lobby where we meet, that occasionally it is hard to make out her words. She is pretty - blonde, delicate, girlish in jeans and tight v-neck pullover - and when she starts laughing it is easy to forget that she has been through one of the cruelest campaigns of physical and psychological torture that the human mind could devise.

At the age of 12, Sabine was cycling to school in rural Belgium when she was abducted by Marc Dutroux, a serial rapist. From May to August 1996, for 80 days, she was incarcerated behind a false wall in his cellar. The space was big enough for a mattress and a chamber pot. From time to time, the kidnapper would take her upstairs, where he would rape her before returning her to her underground cell.

He posed as her "saviour", claiming that he was protecting her from an evil Mr Big who wanted to revenge himself on her father, a former policeman. He convinced her that her family didn't care what happened to her. She expected to die among the vermin in the cellar. But - as the world knows - she didn't. Dutroux made a mistake and was caught. He was later sentenced to life in prison for a spree of abductions that left four young girls dead. Sabine survived. And now, nine years later, at the age of 21, she wants more. She wants, she says, to live.

I Choose to Live is the title of the remarkable book she has written about her ordeal. In France, where it is published under the title I was 12 years old and I took my bike and went off to school… the book has spent as long in the bestseller lists as its author spent in what she calls her "hidey-hole".

In Belgium, where fascination with the Dutroux case knows no bounds, she has grown used to being recognised by perfect strangers who ask for her autograph. "It's a nightmare," she says. "It's so stupid. I'm not a singer, I'm not married to Brad Pitt. And yet everywhere I go I get questions and funny looks. People ask me for my autograph. Or they say they know what I feel, how much I've gone through when they can't possibly know. It's idiotic."

The book was "necessary", she writes, in order to put a stop to the "questions". Does her strategy show any signs of working? "Not just yet. But I live in hope," she snaps. This time, her laugh is so dry that it turns into a cough.

The prickliness is characteristic. Indeed, some reckon it is this defiance that enabled her to survive. She concedes the point: "It's true that my stroppy character did save me. If I had been different, weaker, maybe I would have been dragged down further. But my little acts of resistance, even if they didn't get me anywhere, at least I did my best to defend myself. I think someone weaker would have been worse off than me at the end. I've always been one to express my views. Even if I'm proved wrong, I always feel it's worth trying."

From the start she tried, in her own childish way, to make life difficult for her tormentor. Her incessant grizzling culminated in a sustained whine about her loneliness. She was bored, she said, she wanted a friend. Dutroux eventually kidnapped another girl, Laetitia Delhez - prompted, he said in court, by Sabine's grumbling. This time, he was spotted, traced and arrested. He led the police to the girls. When they crawled out of their hole, they thanked him, their "protector". Sabine even gave him a kiss on the cheek, a memory which still makes her flinch.

Although the book reflects her Catholic upbringing - the room in which Dutroux did his worst is the "Calvary" room - she is not a believer. "Because if God exists, why did I endure all that? Terrible things happen in life, to many people. But it's not for God to save us, it's for us to save ourselves, to come through, to make a new life."

This flat refusal to assume a passive role, whether in relation to God, Dutroux or received wisdom about "victims" and "monsters", runs through her book. It is peppered with "little acts of resistance", not aimed at Dutroux alone, but at all those whose reports gave him an unmerited status. Her abductor is seldom named. Instead he is the "scumbag", the "greasy creep", the "stupid idiot", the "****", the "arsehole".

Why the childish vocabulary? "When I was writing the book, the publisher and I were looking for a word for him, but we couldn't agree. So we settled on lots of playground words. It's a book I want to be read widely, so I didn't use anything too gross, but I wanted to write him down, not build him up. The trouble with the word 'monster', which the press use all the time, is that it gives him a grandeur he doesn't deserve. It was the same at the trial: I really resented the fact that he was Monsieur Dutroux. Monsieur implies deserving of respect. He's not a Monsieur, he's an arsehole."

She has taken pains to avoid using the word rape in her account. Instead, she writes of his demands elliptically, he "put himself through his paces", or forced her to join in his "circus". "I hate the word, rape. It upsets me, although it is the right word for what happened. And it's not a word which people tend to use much around me because they are worried about my reaction." Again she laughs; it is thin, nervous. "I wanted to write it in such a way as to make clear that these things were being experienced by a child. I think that a child, reading the book, would understand it the way I did." Surely no child would read this book? "Oh, yes, I know several who have."

On her liberation, the press camped outside the house where she lived with her parents and two elder sisters, and where "la petite Sabine" wanted to continue as if nothing had happened. She demanded a new bike to replace the one that Dutroux had pulled into his filthy white van and insisted on cycling to school. She passed twice daily the spot which marked the end of her childhood. Some, including her own traumatised mother, found her defiance incomprehensible. Sabine, plainly, could imagine no other way of living. "I'd have to be really unlucky, wouldn't I, to be snatched twice, in the same way?"

In the same spirit, she resisted psychoanalysis. "The shrinks used to put so much pressure on me. I couldn't see where they wanted to go with all their questions. They would hold up cards with little pictures on them and ask me what I saw. And then I started to ask my own questions, like: 'What I am doing here?' "

Sabine was no more cooperative when her family wanted her to open up to them about her ordeal. She refused and, in an irony which she acknowledges with more laughter, her parents and sisters ended up having psychotherapy instead.

Sabine stayed silent for eight years. Then in the autumn of 2004, at the Dutroux trial, she spoke in public about her ordeal for the first time. She was in the box for only an hour but her presence dominated the courtroom, which just one day earlier had fallen mute as the prosecution's most shattering evidence - the desperate letters to her parents she had written from her cell - were read out.

The letters, which Dutroux found but did not destroy, are partly reprinted in the book. They have lost none of their power. The physical pain which the child outlines - the sores, the infection and the haemorrhages brought on by his sexual assaults - is vile enough, but the emotional torment is, if anything, worse. Dutroux's mind-games, particularly his lies about her parents' tacit connivance, left Sabine blaming herself for her plight. In her letters to her mother she pleads for forgiveness.

Sabine's mother, who died earlier this year, never read the letters, although she asked to do so many times. "I didn't think it was right to show them to her. She'd just got over cancer, she had enough to bear already," is Sabine's explanation. The family had never been in the habit of sharing confidences and relations between Sabine and her mother soured after her release. "Did it take my disappearance to make her notice me?" she writes. By the time Sabine was 18, the family had fractured beyond repair. Her parents divorced and Sabine moved out.

What did her mother make of those pages in the book? Sabine's voice shakes and she lights another cigarette. "My biggest disappointment in all this is that Mummy never read it. She died at just about the same time as it came out, so we parted on bad terms. Not easy. It's been hard."

Maybe, I suggest, if Sabine were herself to become a mother…" She finishes the sentence: "…then I would finally understand what she went through? Maybe." When, a few minutes later, we speak of religion, she bursts out, close to tears: "If there is a God and he's meant to be looking after us, then why have I lost my mother?"
__________________
My life is an open book; if you don't like the read, put me back on the shelf ....................
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-10-2005, 11:16 AM
michel's Avatar
michel Offline
Religion: Christian Gnostic
Title:Administrator Emeritus
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers for your work on the newsletter and is well deserved. Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Research Award:  - Issue reason:  Article Award:  - Issue reason:  Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: U.K
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,062
Frubals: 1158699
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
Default The monster paedophile Pt 2

Pt 2

For the moment at least, motherhood is far from her thoughts, although her companion in misery, Laetitia, has just had a baby and Sabine plans to visit them soon. Sabine shares an apartment with her boyfriend in Tournai and commutes daily to Brussels where, she works in an office. She refuses to talk about her personal life, although in the book she writes of her first love - one of the gang she used to hang out with as a teenager. She asked, aged 17, if he realised sex could be difficult for her. "He didn't exactly know what to do either." He was a virgin. It was a first for both of them: for her, love; for him, sex. The relationship didn't last, but it was a crucial milestone on the road to normality.

Her relationship now, she says, is "what you would expect of anyone my age". She was not physically scarred by her childhood abuse. But emotionally? She hesitates. "I know that both of us, Laetitia and me, we have had more difficulty forming relationships than some. We have had more problems trusting people, trusting men, than maybe someone who hasn't gone through what we've gone through."

She is in no hurry to settle down. "I have a lot of growing up to do. I lost the beginning of my adolescence, I don't want to lose the end of it."

Instead, she plans a career change. This month, she will sit the preliminary aptitude tests to join the police force. "Oh, it looks funny, I know, but I'm not going in for the glory, 'Hey, look at me everyone, I'm a police officer.' No I don't see it like that at all. Throughout my early childhood, I was surrounded by policemen. I saw them defending, helping people, being of service. After all that happened to me, I was surrounded by police. I found them nice. It's a world that appeals to me."

And there is something else. "In becoming a policeman, in arresting some creep, well, I can see myself feeling… vengeance! Now obviously it's not all about that - it couldn't be. It's about helping people and all that but, still, if ever it were my job to arrest someone like him. Or even to arrest him. Supposing I had to escort him to one of his trials, oh, what bliss! What happiness to put the handcuffs on him! Oh, I've imagined the scene so many times." She laughs and laughs and laughs again, as if she will never tire of the joke.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html
__________________
My life is an open book; if you don't like the read, put me back on the shelf ....................
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-10-2005, 11:23 AM
Melody's Avatar
Melody Offline
Religion: Believer
Title:Uber Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Michigan
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,251
Frubals: 36381
Melody has much to be proud of
Melody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud ofMelody has much to be proud of
Default

My heart is breaking for this young woman.
__________________
Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
Psa 119:105
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-10-2005, 11:35 AM
ayani's Avatar
ayani Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:member
Tolerance Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Kindness Award:  - Issue reason: This award had been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: hoosier-landia
Gender: Undisclosed
Posts: 5,025
Frubals: 525354
ayani thinks frubals grow on trees
ayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on trees
ayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on treesayani thinks frubals grow on trees
Default

jeez, this kid sounds tough.... and surely, as she said, her sense of humor and toughness helped her get out alive and strong enough to rebuild her life.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2005, 02:41 PM
michel's Avatar
michel Offline
Religion: Christian Gnostic
Title:Administrator Emeritus
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers for your work on the newsletter and is well deserved. Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Research Award:  - Issue reason:  Article Award:  - Issue reason:  Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: U.K
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,062
Frubals: 1158699
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
michel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whoremichel is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gracie
jeez, this kid sounds tough.... and surely, as she said, her sense of humor and toughness helped her get out alive and strong enough to rebuild her life.
Yes, but what strength of character!!
__________________
My life is an open book; if you don't like the read, put me back on the shelf ....................
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-11-2005, 02:04 AM
Unedited's Avatar
Unedited Offline
Religion: Reason
Title:Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kansas, US
Gender: Female
Posts: 837
Frubals: 4526
Unedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the roughUnedited is a jewel in the rough
Default

I really liked two lines.

"I've always been one to express my views. Even if I'm proved wrong, I always feel it's worth trying."

"But it's not for God to save us, it's for us to save ourselves, to come through, to make a new life."

And one I didn't.

"People ask me for my autograph. Or they say they know what I feel, how much I've gone through when they can't possibly know. It's idiotic."

I hate when people get that, "you don't know my pain" attitude.
__________________
"I may not agree with your opinion, but I shall defend to the death your right to give it."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-11-2005, 05:23 AM
Jaymes's Avatar
Jaymes Offline
Religion: Cake
Title:The cake is a lie
Kindness Award:  - Issue reason: This Kindness award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Inside cake
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,756
Frubals: 340945
Jaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfast
Jaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfastJaymes eats frubals for breakfast
Default

Why, Unedited? They really don't, unless they were kidnapped for 80 days and repeatedly raped.
__________________
The cake is a lie.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-11-2005, 06:06 AM
Sunstone's Avatar
Sunstone Online!
Religion: Girls On Trampolines!
Title:De diablo del fora
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: Link Exchange project Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Humor Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado, USA
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,786
Frubals: 4694151
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Default

I think most of us have enough experience of hardships that we can get some inkling of what Dardenne went through. Enough of an inkling that we can have some empathy for her and appreciation of how tough she is as a person. But to have perfect empathy with her? To really understand what she went through? I think one would have to have gone through something very similar for that.
__________________
Then I came back from where I'd been.
My room, it looked the same -
but there was nothing left between
The Nameless and the name.
- Leonard Cohen.

Reply With Quote
  #