Are us-americans criminals?

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

Oh, yeah....as though government run prisons are bastions of rehabilitation & redemption.
Seriously, I'd trust a privately run prison which is required to meet standards & subject to government
audit more than a government run prison which is self-regulated. (Less likelihood of mischief & mahyem.)

I my opinion some things are not ment to be run as a business.
Fx. Schools, hospitals, prisons. They cost what they cost.
A privately run prison has to make a profit.
Why should they spend money on rehabilitation when it cuts down on the profit?
It is actually good for them if the prisoners are not rehabilitated since if they ran out of prisoners they would go out of business.

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

About 1945 or so.

Oh! I remember hearing about that one.
We failed miserably at that one and haven't tried since.
At least not with wars of our own. We stick to fighting your wars, and then when they fail, we blame you

[Sunstone]

You will never get the truth out of a pig.

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

You will never get the truth out of a pig.

I wasn't aware pigs were good liars!

Which pig are we talking about?

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

I wasn't aware pigs were good liars!

That's the point. Pigs don't tell the truth because they cannot tell the truth. It's not in their nature. Have you never heard that expression before?

Which pig are we talking about?

Not you.

[Marble]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

I my opinion some things are not ment to be run as a business.
Fx. Schools, hospitals, prisons. They cost what they cost.
A privately run prison has to make a profit.
Why should they spend money on rehabilitation when it cuts down on the profit?
It is actually good for them if the prisoners are not rehabilitated since if they ran out of prisoners they would go out of business.

This.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

I my opinion some things are not ment to be run as a business.
Fx. Schools, hospitals, prisons. They cost what they cost.
A privately run prison has to make a profit.
Why should they spend money on rehabilitation when it cuts down on the profit?
It is actually good for them if the prisoners are not rehabilitated since if they ran out of prisoners they would go out of business.

I'm not actually opposed to the principle of Public-Private Partnerships, but they absolutely need to have penalties and incentives so that the company's profit is maximized when what they do best serves the public good.

I'm not sure how this could be done with a prison, because the other side of the P3 equation is that they work best when the company involved is able to control the factors that are incentivized/disincentivized. Otherwise, you're not going to get good value from your partnership.

If the things we care about are things like reducing the recidivism rate, it would be very difficult for a prison contractor to have much effect on most of the factors at play.

[Kathryn]

Sunstone, there seems to be some confusion about your statement regarding pigs. Which pig are you referring to?

[Revoltingest]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

I my opinion some things are not ment to be run as a business.
Fx. Schools, hospitals, prisons. They cost what they cost.
A privately run prison has to make a profit.
Why should they spend money on rehabilitation when it cuts down on the profit?
It is actually good for them if the prisoners are not rehabilitated since if they ran out of prisoners they would go out of business.

Those are certainly disincentives to societal goals which would each exist to some extent. But we should also consider
that the state has counter-incentives too. Civil servants get paid no matter how bad a job they do, they've greater
immunity from the law for their misdeeds, & they have greater job security if prisoners aren't rehabilitated. We need
only look to the great documentary, The Shawshank Redemption, to see the evils of government run prisons.
The advantages I see to private prisons:
- Incentive for efficiency would offset the cost of profit.
- The regulating body (ie, gov't) would be a different entity from the service provider (ie, the prison).

Oh! I remember hearing about that one.
We failed miserably at that one and haven't tried since.
At least not with wars of our own. We stick to fighting your wars, and then when they fail, we blame you

War is over-rated.

[Revoltingest]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

I wasn't aware pigs were good liars!

Pigs aren't liars either. They just ain't talk'n....pigs don't snitch.
That's why bacon, ham & pork taste so delicious!

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

Those are certainly disincentives to societal goals which would each exist to some extent. But we should also consider
that the state has counter-incentives too. Civil servants get paid no matter how bad a job they do,

I know that civil servants in many countries have better job protection than people who are privatly employed and thus are more difficult to fire (I assume it is like that in the US) but even so (and it doesn't have to be that way) they can get fired if they don't do a good job.
Why would you assume that a person who is publicly employed (or what ever it is called when you ar not privatly employed) would not get fired for not doing his job properly?

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

they've greater
immunity from the law for their misdeeds, & they have greater job security if prisoners aren't rehabilitated.

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

We need
only look to the great documentary, The Shawshank Redemption, to see the evils of government run prisons.

I never claimed that prisons would magically turm into good prisons if they were government run.

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

The advantages I see to private prisons:
- Incentive for efficiency would offset the cost of profit.

Efficiency usually means cutting staff.
Again a government run prison doesn't need to worry about profit at all.

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

- The regulating body (ie, gov't) would be a different entity from the service provider (ie, the prison).

I will give you that one.
But I don't see it as a big problem as it is not the prison which would be regulating it self which if it was government run. The regulating body would be an other government run entity.

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

Pigs aren't liars either. They just ain't talk'n....pigs don't snitch.
That's why bacon, ham & pork taste so delicious!

Mmm bacon, wait...
Are you saying bacon taste so good because pigs don't snitch.

Anyway, trying to get back on topic....
So you Revoltingest don't think it the fact that you have privatly run prisons han an effect on the number of people in prison?