Vegetarians and vegans and questions thereon (moral, blood, evolve, creation)

[standing_on_one_foot]

I have some friends of mine who believe that noanimals should be killed for food. That's cool, and I respect that, but I do wonder: what, if people were to stop eating meat, would happen to all the livestock (unrealistic as this is)? Not that I'm saying they're better off where they are, you understand, I'm just curious as to what the alternative would be. It's an awful lot of animals we're talking about. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Natural Submission]

Remember, MAN is responsible for breeding all this livestock, otherwise there probably wouldn't be such a huge population. Where they go shouldn't be the concern RIGHT NOW. Rather, preventing them from being grown (not raised) only to be slaughtered so mankind can feast upon their dead bloody flesh should be the matter at hand.

Veganism is a VERY realistic thing in America. In almost every city on almost every block there is a grocery store. One can find all the provisions needed to meet all nutritional needs and live healthy. It is very hard for one to argue against vegetarianism in America. It is inexpensive and easy. However in other parts of the world it is perfectly acceptable to have meat in one's diet when needed. But in America it is just NOT practical or humane.

Check out the "Environmental Statistics..." article in the "Religious Debates" section if you get a chance.

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

I have some friends of mine who believe that noanimals should be killed for food. That's cool, and I respect that, but I do wonder: what, if people were to stop eating meat, would happen to all the livestock (unrealistic as this is)? Not that I'm saying they're better off where they are, you understand, I'm just curious as to what the alternative would be. It's an awful lot of animals we're talking about. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Introduce some large predators to redress the imbalance.
Or we could just turn them all into shoes.
Personally I'm a lover of the dead bloody flesh. The bloodier the better.

[Jaiket]

The animals would form a travelling circus most likely, and with a few recruitments from non-domesticated animal species could put on quite a show. An elephant here, a blue whale there, maybe a few meat-eaters to keep them on their toes/hooves/paws/flippers.

Or alternatively they might lobby governments worldwide to aid them in the creation of a farmyard state, a promised farm. With a duck pond.

[Halcyon]

If everyone suddenly became vegan, the reality is that livestock would simply be killed and burnt (a total waste) as they would become useless and an unnecessary expense, the domesticate species' would then become extinct.

Although i seriously doubt we will ever stop eating meat, we have evolved to eat meat, look up the expensive tissue hypothesis for more information.

It's also a fallacy to suggest that being vegan an easy alternative to being omnivorous, you have to be VERY careful to eat enough of the right foods otherwise you'll quickly develop various vitamin deficiencies. Meat has a lot of the vitamins we need, in fact if you ate all the offal and bone marrow as well as the usual muscle, you might get away with eating nothing but meat, carnivores manage it. Although i wouldn't recommend it.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

If everyone suddenly became vegan, the reality is that livestock would simply be killed and burnt (a total waste)

I think it's unrealistic to think that everyone would suddenly become vegetarian or vegan. As the demand for meat decreases, (which I believe will happen for a number of reasons; economic, heatlh, moral, etc.), the number of animals bred will decrease and return to a natural number. Farmers will simply stop breeding so many animals. When there are fewer of these animals, they will be able to live more natural lives not cramped in a warehouse waiting to die.

as they would become useless and an unnecessary expense, the domesticate species' would then become extinct.

Only if we kill them all. Otherwise they would just return to being feral.

I don't have a problem with using animals as food, in general. There are cultures such as the Inuit who survive solely on animals with very little plant matter in their diets. I do, however, have a huge problem with how we get most of our meat and animal products today. I think they are unhealthy practices not only for the animals, but for humans as well.

[Halcyon]

Only if we kill them all. Otherwise they would just return to being feral.

Lol, imagine waking up to find a herd of cows in your back garden! Seriously though, i don't think our domestic livestock species could survive well without us now, we've bred them to be reliant upon us. Plus they're not like cats, feral cows (over here in england anyway) would not be tolerated.

I think it's unrealistic to think that everyone would suddenly become vegetarian or vegan. As the demand for meat decreases, (which I believe will happen for a number of reasons; economic, heatlh, moral, etc.), the number of animals bred will decrease and return to a natural number. Farmers will simply stop breeding so many animals. When there are fewer of these animals, they will be able to live more natural lives not cramped in a warehouse waiting to die.

Oh yes i agree, but i thought the original question was a hypothetical 'what if we all stopped eating meat...', i guess i might have interpreted it wrong.

I also have a problem with modern farming and killing methods, but not eating meat won't change them.

[Natural Submission]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

If everyone suddenly became vegan, the reality is that livestock would simply be killed and burnt (a total waste) as they would become useless and an unnecessary expense, the domesticate species' would then become extinct.

Maize has addressed this well.

Although i seriously doubt we will ever stop eating meat, we have evolved to eat meat, look up the expensive tissue hypothesis for more information.

Actually we have devolved from our evolutionary potential in this regard. As Adam and all the first human's were all following an Edenic diet of Veganism, it was only later that man went against his/her nature and introduced flesh into his diet.

It's also a fallacy to suggest that being vegan an easy alternative to being omnivorous, you have to be VERY careful to eat enough of the right foods otherwise you'll quickly develop various vitamin deficiencies.

i see where your coming from, but it is certainly NOT a fallacy. i have been a vegan for many many years and i am very healthy and strong. The reality is that most people are ignorant of general nutrition and wouldn't know exactly what to eat in order to balance themselves. A short study course would enlighten anyone to how easy it really is.

Meat has a lot of the vitamins we need, in fact if you ate all the offal and bone marrow as well as the usual muscle, you might get away with eating nothing but meat, carnivores manage it. Although i wouldn't recommend it

True, meat DOES have all this, and so does a plant based diet. Meat is the easy way out for mankind as it gives him what he needs (although NOT promoting longevity) and he doesn't really have to know much about nutrition.

i am a vegan for the sake of YHWH/God/Allah and animal liberation. i am doing it to stop the bloodshed of animals. If we lived in a different time in history where it is hard to support a diet in general, let alone a vegan diet, then i would regretfully consume flesh only when needed.

[Natural Submission]

I also have a problem with modern farming and killing methods, but not eating meat won't change them.

To the contrary. If there is no demand for meat, all farming and slaughter would cease. Animals are born and raised for money, if no one pays for their flesh, the system would collapse.