Materialism (ritual, Earth, procreation, creation, spiritual)

[Lightkeeper]

Someone made a statement in another thread that "sharing a sunset with a loved one is materialistic." What do you think? How do you think materialism effects our lives?

[Nick Soapdish]

I do not follow how that is materialistic. It seems more spirtual than material. Just because the sun and the sky are material objects does not make the behavior materialistic. Materialism and spiritualism speaks more about the motivation and source of a behavior and not the object of it.

[w00t]

People have funny ideas of what is materialistic. One can be so heavenly minded that one is no earthly use!

[Sunstone]

Not being able to appreciate a sunset sounds like anhedonism to me. Anhedonism is more a symptom of illness than a statement about materialism.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

Someone made a statement in another thread that "sharing a sunset with a loved one is materialistic." What do you think? How do you think materialism effects our lives?

As the other posters have said, I cannot see the relationship between 'sharing a sunset' and materialism.
As for the question about how materialism affects our lives, that is a different matter altogether. Materialism unfortunately is almost comparable to a religion with a large percentage of the developed world. The only positive aspect of materialism is that it provides a never ending need for goods, which means that the whole chain of factory worker.....through to salesman is kept alive, ensuring that money circulates.

From a philosophycal or theological point of view, materialism is hardly a positive trait. The idea of rushing out to buy a better car than the next door neighbour's may give some form of instant gratification, but it does nothing for the soul. When we die....etc
Perhaps though, civilization has brought this 'ill' on itself. The main driving force of the human being is 'survival of the fittest', which includes procreation, which entails attracting a suitable mate. If the method of attraction entails 'tempting the potential mate with possessions', which it unfortunately appears to, it is no wonder that materialism has become the man made 'God' of our time.
The whole system reminds me of the 'Sorcerers apprentice' (The piece of music)- I dread to think how wild the 'money machine' will run! The idea is frightening.

[Sunstone]

Can materialism coexist with spirituality? Can the guy who's out to buy a bigger house, a bigger car, and always wants more money still have a fulfilling spiritual life, or are these things mutually exclusive?

Can it be both materialistic and spiritual to watch a sunset?

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Can materialism coexist with spirituality? Can the guy who's out to buy a bigger house, a bigger car, and always wants more money still have a fulfilling spiritual life, or are these things mutually exclusive?

Can it be both materialistic and spiritual to watch a sunset?

Good point Sunstone. We can never really escape entirely from our materialistic motives, and we should becareful about declaring a decision to be entirely one way or another.

[Lightkeeper]

I don't think enjoying a sunset is materialistic. I don't own the sunset it belongs to everyone. Sharing in the joy of the beauty around us is spiritual.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Can materialism coexist with spirituality? Can the guy who's out to buy a bigger house, a bigger car, and always wants more money still have a fulfilling spiritual life, or are these things mutually exclusive?

Can it be both materialistic and spiritual to watch a sunset?

I suppose materialism can coexist with spirituality to some extent, but it is the extremes that worry me; materialism means earning more money; earning more money means less time to spend with family and children. This is a trait I have noticed in a lot of people I worked with; the loss of 'spare time' meant that the 'focus' of life changed-and the way it seemed to change was in the neglect of apparent innesentials.

This is one of the reasons I felt so refreshed by the discovery of R.F; it may be a very different case in the States, or in Australia, but here, to enjoy discussions on religions, morals etc seems to markone a 'freak'.
I still cannot see the materialism in watching a sunset - I can only see the shared spiritual joy that emanates from the sight. Again, that is my view- maybe I am different from others.....

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I know everyone has their view but that is probably one of the craziest things I've ever heard, (watching a sunset is being materialistic) I hope it was a joke, I call it enjoying life.

To me materialism is an offshoot of greed and I see greed as a virtue. If there was no greed, the human-animal race probably would never have survived out of the stone age. Greed is a survival instinct that has allowed the strongest of the packs to survive and the weakest to perish so it insures that weak genes are not passed on to weaken the species as a whole, it's cruel, but that is the nature of nature. Natural laws are not cruel for the sake of it, it's cruelty to insure the cycle of life continues overall, I believe we are part of all of this.

I think the main thing to remember is that, as in nature, that greed has a balance and so should we. The lion does not go around killing everything it can for absolutely no reason, it generally kills and takes what is needed, it is greed in the sense it takes what it needs, but it has the balance to not take more than is generally needed to insure it's and it's species survival. The same goes for most (if not all) animals, there is a balance. I think where greed turns into materialism is when greed is refined and physical objects are cherished or "coveted" as the bible calls it above all else. Some things are needed and wanted, but one shouldn't place too much importance on the material that does not sustain them at the very base levels (food, shelter, sex, etc.) I can say that I wouldn't be happy if I lost some of the things I own, such as this computer I am typing on or someone stole them, but I do not place so much importance on those things that I couldn't live without them. I also do not feel that any material item is worth enslaving another human being over, we have the knowledge or can find it, it's up to us to make the choice whether it's worth it to us or not.

I think the imbalance and resulting perversion of greed resulting in taking more than what is really needed, is one of the major reasons why we are at the point we are in in this world today. On a smaller scale, materialism and the worship of objects is encouraged by those who stand to make a profit off of those whose greed insticts are played upon by them, creating materialism, and that is what most advertising does on a daily basis. In my opinion, our U.S. society is extremely materialistic, everyone wants the next best thing and that mentality overall had lead us to a throwaway society that produces huge ammounts of waste and pollution in the quest for the next best thing and a big profit margin for those that produce them- not to mention the satisfaction with poorer and poorer quality goods by the people consuming them.

In short, I think materialism in it's worst forms is an unnatural dependence on material objects that is a symptom of the lack of balance of greed.
-My opinion anyway