Are there limits to logic? (moral, beliefs, moral, verse)

[Sunstone]

Are there limits to the usefulness of logic in understanding life? If so, what are those limits? If not, does that imply that life (i.e. the universe) is inherently logical?

Again, if logic is all that is necessary to understanding life and the universe, then why do we have such a tough time being logical? Why didn't natural selection eliminate the possibility of our being illogical?

Furthermore, does the power of mathematics -- which is after all, pure logic -- to describe natural phenomena indicate that the universe and life are indeed logical?

[No*s]

Logic is only useful as long as the presuppositions behind it are correct. Here is a perfectly logical syllogism:

All men are pink with purple polka dots.
I am a man.
I am pink with purple polka dots.

The statement is perfectly logical. It's just dead wrong. The less we can verify our assumptions, the less certain we can be.

[Sunstone]

Is logic lame without observation, then, No*s?

[t3gah]

You could always use the quote that Mister Spock made on the Star Trek episode, I Mudd (Harry Mudd, Mudd the 1st)

Logic is like a pretty flower that smells bad.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Is logic lame without observation, then, No*s?

I would say so, to a degree, yes. I would also say that it is lame with observation. Observation, really, tells us nothing. We have to interpret those facts. If our interpretation of the facts is wrong, we again have wrong presuppositions, and again our logic is flawed.

I'm more trying to say that logic is a tool. That is all it is, and it may be used or misused just like any other tool. It, thus, does have real limits.

[lilithu]

Logic by itself also carries no moral/ethical value inherently within it. It does not by itself guide us in how to live in this world. People have tried to derive an ethical system based on logic alone but they fall short, imo. For example, the logical argument is made that people logically should not take unfair advantage of other people because this will cause the other people to be uncooperative with the person. A person isolated from the community, especially in an environment where resources are scarce, is at a distinct disadvantage. So far so good.

However, if a person perceives the opportunity to take advantage of someone else and is absolutely certain of not being caught, then logic alone will dictate that the person should do so. Some people may see nothing wrong with this. I personally do.

[Fluffy]

Are there limits to the usefulness of logic in understanding life? If so, what are those limits? If not, does that imply that life (i.e. the universe) is inherently logical?

Yeah logic has major limits. For example, logic alone will often lead to not being able to deduce anything since at what point can we say that we are not making an assumption where we can then base logic onto it?

Logic needs to be used with other tools. Rationality can tell us when it is safe to make an assumption and therefore when it is okay to use logic. For example its perfectly fine to assume that all the beliefs of a religion are correct if you wish to discuss the logic of the relationship between these beliefs.

The universe appears to be logical. However, perhaps we are not capable of comprehending the incomprehensible and so all of the universes illogicity is lost on us.

[Sunstone]

It seems that most things in this world can be described mathematically -- at least in principle. And mathematics is pure logic. So, doesn't that seem to imply that the world is logical?

But if the world is logical, then what are we to make of political pundits (a class of people who often use the word "logic", but seldom practice it)?

[lilithu]

Another thing that logic does not describe is humour, especially ironic or sarcastic humour.

Nor does it describe beauty.