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Old 04-16-2009, 08:06 AM
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Default Should War be Declared on Somalia?
Either the US or the UN?

Somali pirates have declared war on US Ships.

http://www.reuters.com/article/africaCrisis/idUSLC343356
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1891086,00.html

Somalia hasn’t had a stable government since 1991.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1072592.stm

So why shouldn’t we move in and clean the place up? We’ve done it before. Thomas Jefferson, when president, took us to war against the Barbary Pirates of North Africa.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjprece.html

Excerpt

Quote:
When Jefferson became president in 1801 he refused to accede to Tripoli's demands for an immediate payment of $225,000 and an annual payment of $25,000. The pasha of Tripoli then declared war on the United States. Although as secretary of state and vice president he had opposed developing an American navy capable of anything more than coastal defense, President Jefferson dispatched a squadron of naval vessels to the Mediterranean. As he declared in his first annual message to Congress: "To this state of general peace with which we have been blessed, one only exception exists. Tripoli, the least considerable of the Barbary States, had come forward with demands unfounded either in right or in compact, and had permitted itself to denounce war, on our failure to comply before a given day. The style of the demand admitted but one answer. I sent a small squadron of frigates into the Mediterranean. . . ."


In the Marine Corps hymn the reference to the Shores of Tripoli is about the wars against the Barbary Pirates.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:22 AM
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I don't think that declaring war on Somalia would be terribly wise.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by YmirGF View Post
I don't think that declaring war on Somalia would be terribly wise.
Probably not, but why do you think so?
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:35 AM
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Somalia is a failed state. It has no real government. I've heard of regional wars, but this would be the first time we ever declared war on an actual region.

The US could, I suppose, destroy the pirate's assets. From pictures and reports I've seen they,re pretty obvious. Tiny clusters of mud huts with the occasional goat tethered outside, and a hundred meters away a huge mansion with a Cricket pitch, stables and a collection of Mercedes and Rolls in the drive.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:46 AM
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do you know what it cost to fight a war?

the pirate's arn't worth the bombs we would drop on them

(kinda sad actualy that there so low a nuansance that attacking them would cost us more then the damage they do anualy)
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:48 AM
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Because that worked so well in Iraq, and Vietnam...
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:51 AM
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There are ways that navies from around the world can plaster over the problems of Somalia but as long as a state with grinding poverty, hunger, no law enforcement and no effective government sits beside a rich trading route, piracy will continue.



The outside world has for too long seen Somalia only in terms of threats to their own security.
Targeted missiles and interventions have been used to remove threatening individuals or groups but there has been no serious engagement with the political and developmental problems that allow those threats to take root.
If there is a silver lining to the piracy issue it may be that a deeper, broader and more imaginative engagement with Somalia develops.
Piracy is difficult for the nations of the world and disastrous for sailors - but for millions of Somalis the problems of their homeland are catastrophic.

BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Piracy symptom of bigger problem


the somalis need help not shock and awe
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai View Post
the somalis need help not shock and awe
Agreed, but how to help? Would not occupation be a help? Declare war, eliminate the pirates, occupy the country, raise the standard of living, turn it over to a stable local government. If it isn't the best way to fix the problem, then what are the alternatives?
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:57 AM
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:57 AM
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It makes no more sense to declare war on Somalia because of arm thugs than it does to declare war on Italy because of the mafia.

And the cost of wiping them out is more than than have gotten - from us.

BUT

The freedom of the seas is in OUR interest. We are still a maritime nation. We depend on international trade for our economy. To the extent that these guys curtail shipping thru the Suez our economy takes a hit. If only in the increase in shipping costs.

So we have to take them out. Just how is a military problem. But the policy issue is clear.

They have to go.
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