Predestination or not? (Earth, choices, choice, theist, God)

[michel]

Do members believe in predestination? and if so, how? I do, and I'll outline the way in which I believe in it:-
Predestination, per se, sounds, to me, ridiculous.
Why should God go to all the trouble of creating everything, if we have no input in how we run our live? (For us theists) obviously, prima facie, that sounds most improbable.O.K, so how about if there IS predestination, but coupled with CHOICE. For a graphic example, (With Soul's invaluable computer know how), I've copied a picture, below, of a tree. Imagine a myriad of long roots, firmly embedded in the soil, leading up to the trunk of the tree; go up the trunk, and we have a plethora of branches sprouting out in all directions. On each of the branches, there a many twigs(each one having offshoots etc... ad infinitum).




OK, so now we can conceive the Idea of a 'Spirit' or 'soul', which starts at the bottom of the trunk, and travels up the trunk, during his/her lifetime on Earth.
The spirit (I'll call it 'me' from now on-for ease); I come to a branch - I now have two choices 1) carry on up the trunk, and forget the branch
2) go onto the branch
The choice I made was, perhaps at a stage in life when I had to make a life-changing decision(eg perhaps I was tempted to steal, whatever)and so although I made a CHOICE as to which 'path' to take, the predestination 'element' is viable; all the choices are there, each predestined, and available for me to choose.

Although I am not particulary interested in the folowing aspect, It could be argued that this whole 'tree' business is a viable explanation for fortune tellers, or clairvoyants(If you are open minded enough to accept the possibility that such people are not 'Con Men', and that there can never be anyone who could tell the future.

For those members who believe in, say, Palmistry, It explains the fact that when I(again for sake of ease, I will use I) read your palm, all I can see is the past, present TRENDS, and so, putting 2+3 togeather, I get to 'forecasting your future=5). BUT you can change your future at any point (by going down another branch of the tree), in which case the lines in your hand will change to reflect your change in character.
When I do palmistry (which is not so often these days), I take a ink imprint of the person's hand on tansparent paper; the next time I see the same person, I will do the same. By putting each of the 'prints' one ontop of each other, I can immediately tell a)what the change was (If there has been a change), and what the future has NOW changed in its aspects.

Well, I guess I've made a few wheels grind (It is always a difficult concept to 'put over' -especially when people make an instant judment (maybe subconsciously) as soon as they realize the subject matter is one they could not evisage accepting as a possibility.

I feel pretty hopefull that, in this forum, You will 'give it a read through' , and not condemn the concept out of hand.

I hope to receive feedback on this; and all I can say is 'PLEASE read it with an open mind'; that is all I ask.

[Master Vigil]

I agree with you. I believe that since tao is everywhere, and everything that happens is because of tao. We follow tao inevitably. I like your tree analogy. Good post.

[cardero]

It is a good post. I also use the example of roads (they can go farther and you can sometimes find yourself starting back on the same path). Also using the free will of choice it puts the responsibility of our lives where it belongs, back in our hands, which I believe some people tend to forget.

[SK2005]

I just wrote an essay for english on Predestination. When I get it back, I'll post it.

[michel]

Hi SK,

I'll look forward to reading that!

[t3gah]

I think this is a matter of perspective.

If we humans cannot see the future, then it cannot be predestination because we have no idea, etc.

Since God, if you believe in God, can see the future and knows who's going to be naughty or nice, then to God it's predestination.

But then there have been examples in scrolls where God's have intervened and changed the future.

You know what?! This is going to require more thought. Hrm.


You presentation of facts and the bit with the tree was very nicely done. Cool beans in fact!

[Lightkeeper]

I think we inherit a set of genes which gives us a predisposition and combined with our family environment gives us more predisposition. We do have a choice to work the predisposition. We can go with it or make some changes. I prefer to think of predisposition rather than predestination. I think we are in charge of our destiny. A good parent would help their child use their resources to succeed in life and wouldn't push them along a path they weren't suited for. Why would we expect less of a Higher Being?

[Scuba Pete]

Hey Michel...

You can be "predestined" for something and yet that "something" never happens.

Take my inerring humor, incredible humility and rugged good looks fer instance. It is obvious that I am predestined for greatness. However, through a series of events (not all of my own doing) I will not attain the measure of greatness for which I was created. Was God wrong in blessing me with all of this? NO! I was stupid for not capitalising on it all.

Since we were ALL created in God's image, it only makes sense that he MADE US to be with him. However, he also endowed us with FREE WILL, so we could choose to stay with whomever we please. Some smart cookies decide to go with God, while Satan gets all the crumbs!

But we were designed or predestined to be with God (happy, happy, joy, joy) and not to be with Satan (gloom and doom). Consequently, many are called but few are chosen! God wants everyone to be saved, but very few people want to glorify God as the Lord in their lives. So we have the apparent disconnect: God wants us, but we don't want God.

[SK2005]

Originally Posted by michel

Hi SK,

I'll look forward to reading that!

It's not that great of an essay, I needed some more time and preparation. And it could only so many words.

[SK2005]

I haven't got it back yet, but I will soon.,..hopefully!