Individualism vs Society? (Eden, choice, Biblical, God, Adam and Eve)

[Sunstone]

It is sometimes said these days that individualism is at odds with the needs of society.

The people who say this are often bemoaning what they call the "Me First Attitude."

But individuals have legitimate needs too. So what is the proper balance between the needs of society and the needs of the individual? How do we know what that balance is?



Aristotle somewhere says, "At the crossroads where your talents intersect with the needs of society, there you will find your passion in life."

The important thing about his statement is that it implies there is a possible reconciliation between the needs of the individual and the needs of society. So, I would like to elaborate on his statement a bit.

As you might know, the ancient Greeks all but invented individualism. But their concept of individualism differed somewhat from the concept that we have of individualism today. The ancient Greeks were concerned with what might be called "Socially responsible individualism". Today, we seem to be more concerned with what might be called "Rugged individualism."

Rugged individualism, the sort of individualism that most quickly comes to mind for us today, seems based on the notion that the individual is at odds with society, and must find his fulfillment in himself. On the other hand, socially responsible individualism seems based on the notion that the individual is part of society and can find his fulfillment as an individual through society.

Since the Greeks believed that the individual was capable of finding fulfillment as an individual through society, it naturally occurred to them to ask how that might be possible. Aristotle gives one answer to that question when he says, "At the crossroads where your talents intersect with the needs of society, there you will find your passion in life."

What does that mean in practice? Well, suppose you have a talent for medicine. Where your talent for medicine matches the needs of society for doctors, nurses or other healers, there you will find your passion in life. There you will find what makes you deeply happy. And there you will find what fulfills you as an individual.

What do you think of Aristotle’s view of the relationship between the individual and society? How well does it work? Does it reflect the proper balance between the needs of society and the needs of the individual? What do you think?

[t3gah]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

As you might know, the ancient Greeks all but invented individualism.

Didn't Eve perform the first act of individualism in the garden of Eden when she disobeyed God and ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad?

[Jaiket]

Society is the convention where each works for the good of all, private interests are by definition corrosive to society as they must work counter to it.

[Master Vigil]

"Didn't Eve perform the first act of individualism in the garden of Eden when she disobeyed God and ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad?"

No, the ancient greeks were far before the story of adam and eve was made up.

[No*s]

I would have to dispute this, as much as I love the Greeks. The biblical narrative is one version of the ancient near-east stories. It wasn't made up by the Hebrews, and it predates them. Is it older than the Greeks? I don't think we can say, but it is very, very old and both groups stories certainly predate their record.

[Mustaphile]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

What do you think of Aristotle’s view of the relationship between the individual and society? How well does it work? Does it reflect the proper balance between the needs of society and the needs of the individual? What do you think?

1) What if the talents of the individual have no intersection with the needs the society.

2) Who defines the needs of the society? Or to put it another way, what are the needs? I ask this because it seems that the range of individual expression is limited by it's utility to society.

3) What if my passion is writing crappy poetry, but I'm built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and this suits me for heavy work, but I hate heavy work. How will I make this my passion? Do I look for a need for crappy poetry instead?

[Seyorni]

Originally Posted by truthseekingsoul

Society is the convention where each works for the good of all, private interests are by definition corrosive to society as they must work counter to it.

This describes an ant colony more than any human society.

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

This describes an ant colony more than any human society.

It does? I know more about ants than I thought.

Human society is not human convention?

Or do you disbelieve the claim that private interests are at odds with public good?

[Seyorni]

A balance must be found between individual rights and social responsibility. One should be free to exercise individual choice, even if it is of no benefit to society, as long as it does not actively harm society.

[Ernesto]

I believe that the needs of society are the needs of the individual, because it is us as individuals which make up society, all of us collectively. Marx said that "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all", and that is very true in the sense that it is only by fulfiling each person's needs that we can fulfil society's needs.