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  #51  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by frg001 View Post
...as long as you don't act on it, nothing to be ashamed of, or worry about.
Even if you acted on it, would it necessarily be as bad as people claim it would be? Is there anything in this world as bad as some people claim it to be?
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Last edited by Sunstone; 01-09-2009 at 02:11 AM..
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  #52  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunstone View Post
Strumpet! Hussy! It's the fact people indulge themselves in shameless daydreams about Hollywood celebrities that surely will cause the break up of the family widget and the downfall of civilizations -- probably by next Tuesday at the latest.
Oh no.....I used to daydream all the time about being on a stranded island with that actor who played the doctor on "Lost". I just couldn't help it!!!! But what have I done!! What's to become of civilization!!! And Viggo Mortenson from Lord of the Rings!! I know there are others!! Somebody save me! And somebody save my husband - he's in love with Robin Meade in the morning from Headline News!!! I just know it!!
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  #53  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:02 AM
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Just a quibble, but I do not see attraction to another human as a "dark corner". We're social animals and we should therefore expect to be attracted to each other for any number of reasons.
Totally agree

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Guilt serves no purpose. It's like the human appendix -- it probably had some function once long ago in our evolutionary past, but it is now merely something that serves no purpose, yet from time to time becomes inflamed.
Totally disagree
I see guilt as part of the moral process of the human brain, a natural defence against doing wrong. As you grow up you do things that you probably shouldn't, and subsequently feel guilty. I am not talking about natural things such as carnal desire, but things that hurt others, or are wrong. I know I have learned to be the way I am today from the guilt at doing things I shouldn't. For instance as a teenager I was rabidly homophobic (going along with the flow really), whereas now I am the total opposite, and I still have pangs of guilt for some of the things I said or did. The guilt makes you realize you have done wrong, and hopefully helps prevent you doing it again.
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  #54  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by frg001 View Post
I see guilt as part of the moral process of the human brain, a natural defence against doing wrong. As you grow up you do things that you probably shouldn't, and subsequently feel guilty. I am not talking about natural things such as carnal desire, but things that hurt others, or are wrong. I know I have learned to be the way I am today from the guilt at doing things I shouldn't. For instance as a teenager I was rabidly homophobic (going along with the flow really), whereas now I am the total opposite, and I still have pangs of guilt for some of the things I said or did. The guilt makes you realize you have done wrong, and hopefully helps prevent you doing it again.
Everyone can point to times when guilt aligned with what was good and fair. Like a broken watch, it's right twice a day. But that doesn't mean guilt is a reliable guide to what is good and fair.
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Certainty is a mind killer -- Debater Slayer

The most precious thing in life is its uncertainty. -- Kenko

It has always surprised me how little attention philosophers have paid to humor, since it is a more significant process of mind than reason. Reason can only sort out perceptions, but the humor process is involved in changing them. -- Edward de Bono
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  #55  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:15 AM
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Everyone can point to times when guilt aligned with what was good and fair. Like a broken watch, it's right twice a day. But that doesn't mean guilt is a reliable guide to what is good and fair.
Absolutely, but I stand by my statement. Personally I rarely feel guilty for things I have no reason to, I think that's more prevalant among religious followers.

Personally many of my moral viewpoints on issues such as I mentioned come from a feeling of guilt for thoughts and actions I have experienced and done.
Stealing, bullying, bigotry, cheating, selfishness are all things that are often brought into line by guilt.
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  #56  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:24 AM
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Absolutely, but I stand by my statement. Personally I rarely feel guilty for things I have no reason to, I think that's more prevalant among religious followers.

Personally many of my moral viewpoints on issues such as I mentioned come from a feeling of guilt for thoughts and actions I have experienced and done.
Stealing, bullying, bigotry, cheating, selfishness are all things that are often brought into line by guilt.
I think what happens with most of us is we remember the times our feelings of guilt have been spot on, but forget the times they've been ridiculous. Moreover, most of us don't look very closely at senseless guilt -- we simply dismiss it before it's grown and has a memorable impact on us. But I am convinced that were you or most anyone else to take a close and dispassionate look at the all the times you experience guilt over the course of a couple weeks, you would find that far and away most twinges of guilt are useless as moral guides. Perhaps you should try keeping a journal for a few weeks -- as I have done -- in which you record each instance of guilt you feel. I'm pretty sure when you re-read your journal at the end of two or three weeks, you will see most experiences of guilt are not good guides to morality.
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Uncle Sunstone!!! I feel so......so.....dirty. But I feel so ALIVE!!! -- MysticSang'ha

Certainty is a mind killer -- Debater Slayer

The most precious thing in life is its uncertainty. -- Kenko

It has always surprised me how little attention philosophers have paid to humor, since it is a more significant process of mind than reason. Reason can only sort out perceptions, but the humor process is involved in changing them. -- Edward de Bono
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  #57  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunstone View Post
Guilt serves no purpose. It's like the human appendix -- it probably had some function once long ago in our evolutionary past, but it is now merely something that serves no purpose, yet from time to time becomes inflamed.
What if you get drunk, hop in your car, and then run over a crowd of children at a crosswalk?
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  #58  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:35 AM
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What if you get drunk, hop in your car, and then run over a crowd of children at a crosswalk?
Wouldnt that get you bonus points?
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  #59  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:36 AM
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I think what happens with most of us is we remember the times our feelings of guilt have been spot on, but forget the times they've been ridiculous. Moreover, most of us don't look very closely at senseless guilt -- we simply dismiss it before it's grown and has a memorable impact on us. But I am convinced that were you or most anyone else to take a close and dispassionate look at the all the times you experience guilt over the course of a couple weeks, you would find that far and away most twinges of guilt are useless as moral guides. Perhaps you should try keeping a journal for a few weeks -- as I have done -- in which you record each instance of guilt you feel. I'm pretty sure when you re-read your journal at the end of two or three weeks, you will see most experiences of guilt are not good guides to morality.
As I said, I think you are right that many people feel guilt for unnecessary things. But you are also right to mention that these times, we come to realize they are ridiculous... the very fact that keeping a journal may highlight them shows that. The guilt we feel that is justified, tends to stay with us...and is very useful.
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  #60  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:36 AM
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What if you get drunk, hop in your car, and then run over a crowd of children at a crosswalk?
Please allow me to repeat myself, Bill, as a favor to you. As I said in an earlier post, guilt, like a broken watch, is sometimes right. But it's not right often enough to be reasonably considered a moral guide. This has been my observation of my own feelings of guilt -- perhaps your own close and dispassionate observations would differ.
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Uncle Sunstone!!! I feel so......so.....dirty. But I feel so ALIVE!!! -- MysticSang'ha

Certainty is a mind killer -- Debater Slayer

The most precious thing in life is its uncertainty. -- Kenko

It has always surprised me how little attention philosophers have paid to humor, since it is a more significant process of mind than reason. Reason can only sort out perceptions, but the humor process is involved in changing them. -- Edward de Bono

Last edited by Sunstone; 01-09-2009 at 03:08 AM..
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