morality absolute or relative? (morals, evolution, America, sex, morals)

[robtex]

How much of morality is absolute and how much percentage wise is relative? Is there a universal morality or is it instead completely culturally defined?

[Sunstone]

I think humans, over the course of our evolution, evolved certain behaviors that we consider moral. Those behaviors have an innate, genetic component. But how they are expressed varies somewhat from culture to culture.

For instance: Humans seem to have a genetic predisposition to notice cheating in the distribution of food and goods. But some cultures have institutionalized some forms of cheating and consider those forms to be normal. Such as giving more food, or more of something else, to the oldest male child.

The implication of this is that our morality is partly innate, and partly determined by our culture or by individuals. To the extent it is innate, it would be hard to go against it without going against our own nature.

[robtex]

Sunstone two questions on that post:

1) when you say evolved do you mean that morality is a by product of evolution (and if so how)
2) Are you aware of genetic research that supports the claim the morals are encoded in dna and if so who and where?

[Pah]

Originally Posted by robtex

How much of morality is absolute and how much percentage wise is relative? Is there a universal morality or is it instead completely culturally defined?

One society's morality is always relative to another's. Society can be defined as a group comprised of groups. No morality is abslolute because all morality is changeable according to the needs of the society adopting it. Morality is basically behavior regulation enforced by taboo and is distinct from law.

I think that to term morality as universal is wrong - moralities have commonalities and are rarely congruent in the constituent rules. There are varying prohibitions in degree and definition that share the same "label", i. e., killing. stealing, et cetera.

Bob

[Sunstone]

(1) I think that to some extent morality is ultimately a product of evolution. It seems odd to me to assert -- say -- that the human nose evolved, or that human limbs evolved, but that human behaviors (including those behaviors we think of as having to do with morality) somehow magically escaped evolution. Instead, I think that both our physiology and our behaviors are products of evolution.

The specific "how" a behavior evolved would depend on the behavior. Since behavior leaves few traces in the fossil record, it's somewhat speculative how any particular behavior evolved. But anthropologists and evolutionary biologists can still make some pretty shrewd guesses about how.

For instance: Almost every known culture and society has some kind of taboo against incest. Since incest can lead to dire genetic consequences, it's easy to see that it would have been selected against in evolution. Or, perhaps the best way to put it is to say that a taboo against it would have been selected for in evolution.

(2) I don't think genetics has come along far enough that specific genes for too many behaviors have already been identified, although I fully expect that genes and gene combinations will increasingly become identified over the next few years. The science is making rapid advances.

On the other hand, there are already numerous studies of identical twins that have resulted in evidence for genetic components in behavior. Those studies can pin point that a specific behavior is -- say -- 50% or 30% genetically determined.

The way the incest taboo operates biologically has been well documented, although I don't think the genes for it have been identified yet. But it works this way: A person develops an aversion to having sex with anyone that they spend considerable time with during the first seven or so years of their life. For instance: a girl would develop an aversion to having sex with her brother (if she and her brother were raised in the same household during the first seven or so years of her life), but not if she and her brother were raised separately.

[cardero]

Robtex writes: How much of morality is absolute and how much percentage wise is relative?

I do not think that morality can be considered absolute it will always be a matter of opinion like beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

Robtex writes: Is there a universal morality or is it instead completely culturally defined?

It is culturally defined. It is a popularity decision. It is defined for us usually by people that do not adhere to it. It is not handed down from GOD because GOD doesn’t interfere with our lives, politics or cultures. We cannot create GOD in our image.

Robtex writes: 1) when you say evolved do you mean that morality is a by product of evolution (and if so how)

An accurate way to review our morals over the century is to witness what is allowed on many TV broadcasts. In older times it was considered taboo or distasteful to show a couple in the same bed unless there was one foot on the floor. Now today you can see that this isn’t the standard anymore. It is very interesting to see what is morally accepted in the many different countries that we live in. For example American moral standards are different than Canadians moral standards or England’s moral standards. These differences do exist. As for who is right or who is wrong I guess that is up to the individual as well.

[Seyorni]

The laws of morality, like the laws of thermodynamics, existed fully-formed a billion years before a cloud of dust coalesced to form the sun and planets.

Most human laws and moral principles, however, developed as rules to maintain order in various primative societies. When tribes abandoned their tents and nomadic lifestyles, though, they neglected to change the rules, even when these norms no longer applied to present circumstances. Thus, rules which were originally clearly based on expediency, are now controversial and in many cases at odds with social order and current social circumstances.

[HelpMe]

.................Reality is relative.

[painted wolf]

Morality is absolutely relative.

Each group defines the standards on wich they base thier morality. Take the laws of the USA, while there are basic laws that cover the morality of the whole (Murder=bad) each state makes changes on the morality of that law (state murder=good) and then smaller groups such as juries make further relitivistic choices on the morality of that law (self defence=ok)

wa:do

[Scuba Pete]

Like TVOR's undergarments... it "Depends".

Some is immutable... like rape or murder.

Some not so... like what food is unclean.

Unfortunately, many look at morality as simply a system of "don'ts". In actuallity it is a system of "dos" as well. Perfect Love casts out hate, which stops rape and murder.

Read Galations 5 for some deeper insight into this.