Conflict in the Middle East (moral, suicide, pray, Israel)

[anders]

Student,

Why do you think that I should read more history? It seems to me that we agree on the basics - for example, I mentioned Britain's part in the ME. I'd be happy to add that Britain's leaving the Subcontinent was effected very clumsily indeed and that it is the cause of much of today's problem.

It is always difficult to separate theory from practice. Islam is in theory tolerant, especially against "peoples of the book" (meaning Christians and Jews). And the Qur'an says: "Let there be no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256; interpretation ("translation") by A. Yusuf Ali).

[chookyman]

Hay student,

is this what your talking about?

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/fraudis.html

Nasty, very nasty

[painted wolf]

Originally Posted by student_of_god

Islam only makes itself known by belittling everyone elses religions. It is not just a religion, it is a law, it is the culture. It is a religion to which I feel ashamed of being apart of, but I was born into it and all my life until I was able to get away was brainwashed by it from family, schools, etc..... I am a lucky one, but many of my friends are boarder line fundermentalists which latter take their religion too seriously and get mislead by our religious leaders based on their perception of the holy book and their translation pased onto us (which has personal feelings etc inbuilt).

sounds kinda' like most fundimentalist religions (christianity and thier ilk).

anyway, back on track. The basic problem is that neither sides REALY wants to make any consessions to the other. They both hope that if they just keep duking it out that eventually they will win. (either by having the other side give up or by having the international community step in) Neither side trusts the other (and both have good reason not to) and thus they refuse to give either side a fair chance to make good on any peace proposal.

basically as I see it, this fight will continue untill something drastic happins to both sides that would knock both on their proverbial asses. And it would have to be from an outside source or they would just blame one another like they always do.
Something to show them how petty and terrible this fight has become. What that would or could be I have no idea.

wa:do

[anders]

PW,
You wrote
"The basic problem is that neither sides REALY wants to make any consessions to the other."
Would any country make concessions if their land was stolen from them? Why should Lebanon, Jordania and the Palestinians accept that a foreign power takes parts of their countries? Imagine Russia going back on their deal and taking back Alaska. Would there be any concessions from the US? I doubt it. Any country has the right to fight invaders and occupying powers, according to international law, but the methods can be discussed.

[Mr Spinkles]

anders-- Just remember to take into consideration the Israeli's viewpoint also. Should they negotiate with terrorists? If they give concessions as a result of terrorism, won't that only encourage terrorism in the future? Perhaps that is why Israel only wants to deal with Palestine when people won't think Israel is being brough to the table through terrorism. Maybe that is why every time there is a terrorist attack, the entire peace process goes to crap (notice that every time a peaceful solution gains any headway, a terrorist organization commits another attack? These groups do not want peace, because if the conflict was ever resolved they would lose power).

Also, would any country make concessions if, in recent history, they were attacked suddenly from all sides on three seperate occasions? Why should Israel give back occupied land when the Arabs have repeatedly attacked them from that currently occupied land? Why on Earth should Israel even consider giving back that land until the Arab nations fully recognize Israel's permanent right to exist?

All I am saying is look at both sides. I agree with painted wolf....both sides must be willing to make concessions for peace to work.

[DontFearMe]

You know I absolutely agree that there is never 1 side to an issue, and that both sides need to be investigated as well. Now, as far as terrorists are concerned, you think the Palestinians are terrorist while they think of themselves as freedom fighters and the Israelis as an oppressive occupation entity. Both sides do have to make some sort of sacrafices of course. And israel needs to stop the ILLEGAL settlements by zionists moving into Israel taking land illegaly. Why does Israel disregard this? It is a violation of international law that Israel and America always seem to use as an excuse against others (Iraq). Anyways, nice discussion. take care

[DontFearMe]

oh and student of god....the new thread you made was refuted by me. take a look. thank u.

[UNITED]

I'm just 16, but I have always been neutral to the conflict. Let me just say i was an ignorant American kid, having no idea what the Middle East was, or caring anything about it until I got to a magnet high school in 2002. There we watched the news and heared about the bombings in Israel. But I believed the Jews needed their own land after what the Nazis did. The free world allowed it, and must make so it will never happen again. But then I realized, they got the Palestinian land,and treated them badly. It's hard to take a side. But with the suicide bombings on Isreal civilians and the Israeli attacks on Palestinian cities make you want them to end it. I think that the Israelis should give a big portion of land to the Palestinians as quick as possible.

[chookyman]

The issues with Israle is a lot more complecated then that. There is a belief that as long as the Jews and Palistinians keep at each other, they will advert which all the Jews, Muslims, and Christians fear, and that is Armongeton or Judgement Day.

You see the story goes something like this, that when the two stop fighting and actully bring about peace which is long-lasting, the bringer of death to this world will arise (known as the antichrist or the demon of the bottomless pit).

You must realise and read the koran and you will see that there are a lot of references made to both jews and christians, which to a large majority of muslims hate jews. So whether Jews do nothing or something, they will be dammed if they do and dammed if they don't by the muslims. After the jews, then it will be the christians turn. Like they say in Islam, kill the saturday people first and then the sunday people next.

Islam is a religion that cannot sit still, it is their obligation to spreed the word of Islam and make the whole world on big islamic empire. Look what is happing now in the European countries and southeast asian countries. It is all there in black in white on the net written by authorities.

[anders]

United, You write "I think that the Israelis should give a big portion of land to the Palestinians as quick as possible." A majority in the UN agrees that Israel illegally occupies parts of the former Palestine. Those parts should of course be restored immediately, like the land that is being stolen when the wall is built.

In a way, the reasons for the Palestinian's actions are not complicted or hard to understand at all. If my country were occupied by people coming from other parts of the world, I would in all probability fight fiercely in every way I could find out.

chookyman, you make several statements without proof.

"There is a belief that as long as the Jews and Palistinians keep at each other, they will advert which all the Jews, Muslims, and Christians fear, and that is Armongeton or Judgement Day." Harmageddon is a Christian only concept. Where do Christians enter the conflict -- unless you are referring to that the cause of the conflict is that Christian nations with Britain and USA in the forefront gave away land they didn't own to people who weren't living there.

Looking back in history, Islam has been living in peace with other religions in several places. I know of no respectable source, claiming "kill the saturday people first and then the sunday people next." Which religion is most intent on spreading? What about Math 28:19 "teach all nations, baptizing them". It would be interesting if you could quote similar verses from the Qur'an, but remember that the most violent Holy Book is the Bible. Think of the genocides in the OT, and that God himself eradicated the whole world's population, with the exception of one family only.

Where did you find "You see the story goes something like this, that when the two stop fighting and actully bring about peace which is long-lasting, the bringer of death to this world will arise (known as the antichrist or the demon of the bottomless pit)."? "Antichrist" is purely Christian, so how could your quote relate to the Middle East conflict, even if some <self-censored> person has said so?