Overthrowing Roe v Wade (choice, abortion, suicide)

[Pah]

What would be the legal justification for overthrowing a woman's right to abortion?

Roe v Wade is couched in terms of a woman's right of controling her own body against the state's interest in the fetus. Would a decision to void Roe v Wade involve giving the state primary interest in the fetus? Would the woman bearing the fetus then become chattel to the state?

Bob

[Jayhawker Soule]

Certainly, if you maintain that women prior to RvW were "chattel of the state". However, I have a problem with this kind of hyperbole. Not only does it poison the discusion, I suspect that were we to interview those who were, in fact, "chattel of the state", we'd find the difference is more than nuance.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Certainly, if you maintain that women prior to RvW were "chattel of the state". However, I have a problem with this kind of hyperbole. Not only does it poison the discusion, I suspect that were we to interview those who were, in fact, "chattel of the state", we'd find the difference is more than nuance.

Chattel is certainly a proper term when the state would force a woman to continue a pregnacy. State interest prior to Roe v Wade may be said to have been in the woman's health and might avoid the the "ugliness" of the term. Howerver, after Roe v Wade and however emotive "chattel" may be, it is an accurate picture of denying a woman's right to her body to serve a state interest in the fetus.

Would you have any comment on justification to end abortion other than this tangental one?

Bob

[Ceridwen018]

In my mind, an end to abortion is justified in the fact that the embryo/fetus/baby is living and it is human. The grounds for terminating a pregnancy are to keep from inconveniencing the mother, and allowing her to have full control of her bocy, but there are other instances where it is unlawful for her to have such control. It is illegal for that woman to attempt suicide, take illegal drugs, have illegal operations performed, etc.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

In my mind, an end to abortion is justified in the fact that the embryo/fetus/baby is living and it is human.

I believe that answers my request in the first and second question

The grounds for terminating a pregnancy are to keep from inconveniencing the mother, and allowing her to have full control of her bocy, but there are other instances where it is unlawful for her to have such control. It is illegal for that woman to attempt suicide, take illegal drugs, have illegal operations performed, etc.

The right to choose to have a child is a legal activity as is the choice to avail herself of legally acquired contraception. These are not on a par with the illegal activities you mentioned (I'm not sure attempted suicide is illegal accross the nation) To force her pregancy to completion makes the woman a servant of the state - a property of the state in furtherance of the state's interest in the fetus, assuming that Roe v Wade is overturned on those grounds you mentioned.

Bob

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

In my mind, an end to abortion is justified in the fact that the embryo/fetus/baby is living and it is human. The grounds for terminating a pregnancy are to keep from inconveniencing the mother, and allowing her to have full control of her bocy, but there are other instances where it is unlawful for her to have such control. It is illegal for that woman to attempt suicide, take illegal drugs, have illegal operations performed, etc.

I think the recent case with the two teenagers and the baseball bat proves that you can't stop abortion by making it illegal, whatever your feelings on the subject. To say that the grounds for terminating a pregnancy are to keep it from inconveniencing the mother and allowing her to have full control of her body is a little simplistic.
By the way, what is the legal penalty for attempted suicide?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by pah

Chattel is certainly a proper term when the state would force a woman to continue a pregnacy.

I do not believe that it is. One does not become chattel simply by virtue of being constrained by the state to take or avoid some action. If, however, you take this hyperbole as axiomatic, you leave very little to discuss.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

I do not believe that it is. One does not become chattel simply by virtue of being constrained by the state to take or avoid some action. If, however, you take this hyperbole as axiomatic, you leave very little to discuss.

I was thinking more along the lines of being owned by the state during the time of pregnancy when it would be a time where a woman could not control her own life. Good maturity heath could easily be demanded of the woman instead of her choice - her diet controlled - her goings and comings proscribed - all in the states interest of the fetus.

Bob

[Ceridwen018]

The right to choose to have a child is a legal activity as is the choice to avail herself of legally acquired contraception. These are not on a par with the illegal activities you mentioned (I'm not sure attempted suicide is illegal accross the nation) To force her pregancy to completion makes the woman a servant of the state - a property of the state in furtherance of the state's interest in the fetus, assuming that Roe v Wade is overturned on those grounds you mentioned.

I understand that one is legal and the other not, but my point is that there are other things which are illegal, which restrict the woman's control over her own body. The point is, is that keeping abortion legal simply so the mother can have 'more control' over her body is not a solid enough reason.

I think the recent case with the two teenagers and the baseball bat proves that you can't stop abortion by making it illegal, whatever your feelings on the subject. To say that the grounds for terminating a pregnancy are to keep it from inconveniencing the mother and allowing her to have full control of her body is a little simplistic.

People find ways to do illegal things on all levels. Just becuse people are going to find ways to do it anyway, doesn't mean it should be kept legal. Under that philosophy, cocaine and murder should be legal too.

By the way, what is the legal penalty for attempted suicide?

Where I come from, it is required that you seek psychological help, and then you are carefully mopnitored for a period of time afterwards. When you attempt suicide, they don't just clean you up and send you home.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by pah

I was thinking more along the lines of being owned by the state during the time of pregnancy when it would be a time where a woman could not control her own life.

In my opinion, there was never a time in this country when a woman was "owned by the state".