Old lies die hard (Jesus, Darwin, evolution, creation, church)

[Pah]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

was darwin a 'skeptical agnostic'?

The reference is to a lie which is fully exposed here

Bob

[Pah]

http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/Dar..._his_death_bed

# The story of Darwin's recanting is not true. Shortly after Darwin's death, Lady Hope told a gathering that she had visited Darwin on his deathbed and that he had expressed regret over evolution and had accepted Christ. However, Darwin's daughter Henrietta, who was with him during his last days, said Lady Hope never visited during any of Darwin's illnesses, that Darwin probably never saw her at any time, and that he never recanted any of his scientific views [Clark, 1985; Yates, 1999].
# This claim is false. It was fabricated by a devout person named Lady Hope (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hope.html), and those Creationists who propagate this claim are apparently unaware of, or unconcerned with, the fact that Darwin's children (who were uniquely in a position to know) have affirmed that Lady Hope's story is false in all particulars.

http://pharyngula.org/comments/568_0_1_0_C/

He was just a man, a man who died in his old age in the company of his family, after much suffering, like so many others. His last moments were neither a testimonial to Jesus nor a heroic stand for atheism, so let's not use them as a rhetorical bludgeon either way.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8561.htm
However, this discussion is moot, because the Darwin death-bed conversion tale is pure fabrication, invented by zealous Christians for the purpose of furthering the Christian religion and for the purpose of denigrating both the "agnosticism" practiced by Darwin (what this magazine calls atheism) and the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection.

[Jaiket]

It is irrelevant whether he believed in God. His theories would be no better or worse if he believed god was made of bread, married a dancing bear, and travelled on a pogo stick smeared in marmalade instead of the HMS Beagle. The claim he disbelieved in his own ideas, whether true or not, is hardly potent ammunition for creationists.

[desi]

Is it so hard to believe in creationism and evolution at once?

[Jaiket]

If you want to, then I see no reason why you shoudn't. I cannot contradict the claim that god created the world and started life.

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by pah

that Darwin probably never saw her at any time, and that he never recanted any of his scientific views

i suppose then that she snuck into his home so she could later describe it accurately in a lie?i've also heard reports that she visited, just not on his deathbed, that she was in the area in the time of his death, that he practiced his town's church activities.

Originally Posted by pah

invented by zealous Christians

whether or not it was 'invtented', it was 'invented' by one well-off individual.who said atheists don't lie too?

why did he work towards not having his works published?what did his children stand to gain if the story were proved or supposedly false?

i agree with truthseekingsoul on the matter(it is irrelevant) as you would of seen had you simply followed my link and read through.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

i suppose then that she snuck into his home so she could later describe it accurately in a lie?i've also heard reports that she visited, just not on his deathbed, that she was in the area in the time of his death, that he practiced his town's church activities.

There seems to be, at the least, a discrepancy of the "lady's" description and members of Darwin's famil - would't you say? It becomes a lie when the discrepancies are corrected and refused to be acknowledged.

whether or not it was 'invtented', it was 'invented' by one well-off individual.who said atheists don't lie too?

??????? I have no idea what you mean!

why did he work towards not having his works published?what did his children stand to gain if the story were proved or supposedly false?

Darwin well understood the crap he would face and that was the reason, in the meaning of his words, when asked the very same question. But I bet he never envisioned the vitrolic attack on his reputation he still recieves from some Christians.

Again, your meaning is not clear - what are you saying or asking in your second, quoted question?

i agree with truthseekingsoul on the matter(it is irrelevant) as you would of seen had you simply followed my link and read through.

It is hardly irrevelant, and the point of this thread, that some Christians would perpetuate a lie. This lie has to be the most egregious ad hominem attack Darwin has suffered.

Bob

[Seyorni]

"is it so hard to believe in creationism and God at once?"

One answers how, the other, who.

I believe in both Ford and automotive engineering.

[HelpMe]

the link pah, the link rather leaves it as a moot point.

http://www.carm.org/evo_questions/deathbed.htm

i really believe that he could of easily forseen christianities attacks on him, i mean honestly he must of heard of the inquisition.

said Lady Hope never visited during any of Darwin's illnesses, that Darwin probably never saw her at any time, and that he never recanted any of his scientific views

this quote is refuted by j.moore(The Darwin Legend, Hodder 1995), a supporter of the notion that she was not there during his final illness.

...There is one important point that appears to have escaped all who have followed Moore in criticising Lady Hope's character. Moore is clearly critical of Lady Hope, yet he admits that Lady Hope probably did visit Darwin, for she gives an accurate description of his clothes, facial expressions, the room, etc. Yet he also quotes the Darwin family's total denial that she ever entered Darwin's house....

[Jaiket]

It is hardly irrevelant, and the point of this thread, that some Christians would perpetuate a lie. This lie has to be the most egregious ad hominem attack Darwin has suffered.

Bob[/quote]

I'm sure Charlie will be just fine from his attack of the zealots. The idea that christians would perpetuate a lie...ever heard of the bible?