Should a man be proud of being a man? (minority, vain)

[Fluffy]

Disclaimer: Sorry if anybody finds this offensive. I don't hate men and have many male friends (and am one at that). This is really using my struggle at coming to terms with what I see as the facts of being a man as a debating point rather than an attempt to judge other men. If anybody is offended, I will happily delete the thread.

I am personally not very comfortable with being a man. No, not in the sense that I feel more like a woman and am considering a sex change, but simply that men seem to be responsible or at least more likely to be responsible for the majority of evil acts in society today.

Murderers, rapists etc are all far far more likely to be men than women. Quite frankly, I find it depressing to be a man because I don't believe there is anything positive about being one. With the rise of feminism, women have been liberated from some of the evils of men and told that they have many reasons to be proud about being a woman. The same has never happened for men and after searching vainly, I have turned to the unfortunate conclusion that the reason for this is that there is no reason to be proud about being a man.

One argument against this that I encounter is that men still have the ability to choose not to become a murderer or a rapist. Whilst this is true, it does not obscure the fact that a higher percentage of men than women choose otherwise.

Recently I had a conversation with a friend who is a rather outspoken feminist and likes to point out the short comings of men compared to women (not in a malicious way but simply as a matter of fact). I explained to her my views on the issue at which point she suggested that this might be explained by the fact that men no longer have an indentifiable role in society. She believes that a man is genetically disposed to being the protector of the family but, as society changes, this role is becoming more and more redundant and so men are unable to properly express what they are genetically determined to do resulting in extremely destructive and undesirable behaviour in a minority.

So up for debate:
Is the correlation between men and violent crime causal or is their a hidden factor at work? If there is a hidden factor then what is it?
If their is a causal correlation what is explanation for this? Is my friend's explanation a good one?
If their is a causal correlation, what should our response be to it?
Edit: I am taking the fact that their is a correlation between men and violent crime as obvious but if anybody wants to debate that point as well then feel free.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Strangely as you live here in England You should know female crime as a percentage is on the up.
Especially female violent crime.

[Fluffy]

Heya Terry,
I wasn't aware of that actually, do you have any links? I have been out of the country for some time so I may have missed any news articles.

Do you think it will increase to the point where we have a roughly 50/50 gender split in terms of violent crime thereby indicating that there is no correlation between men and violent crime?

[Hema]

Yes a man should be proud of being a man. Even if you think most men don't have anything to be proud of, as long as you know your own worth, you should be proud of who you are.

Both men and women have shortcomings....such things are not gender specific. There are some things my husband will be better at than me and I might be better than him at other things.

Men have a lot to proud of - they are fathers, husbands, friends, sons, etc.

Some men may have a tendency to be a certain way, for eg. we often hear about men abusing their wives, but there are also wives who abuse their husbands and in such cases, the husbands are often those men who would never dream of hurting a woman.

We are all humans; we all make mistakes...men and women alike.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Heya Terry,
I wasn't aware of that actually, do you have any links? I have been out of the country for some time so I may have missed any news articles.

Do you think it will increase to the point where we have a roughly 50/50 gender split in terms of violent crime thereby indicating that there is no correlation between men and violent crime?

No links I am afraid, it came up in a news story on prison overcrowding.

as to where it will end is anybody's guess but 50/50 is a long way away.
women's violence may also be a useful attribute, as women in the armed forces have to be equally willing as the men to Kill. An interview I saw, of a woman fighter pilot was quite chilling.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Disclaimer: Sorry if anybody finds this offensive. I don't hate men and have many male friends (and am one at that). This is really using my struggle at coming to terms with what I see as the facts of being a man as a debating point rather than an attempt to judge other men. If anybody is offended, I will happily delete the thread.

I am personally not very comfortable with being a man. No, not in the sense that I feel more like a woman and am considering a sex change, but simply that men seem to be responsible or at least more likely to be responsible for the majority of evil acts in society today.

Murderers, rapists etc are all far far more likely to be men than women. Quite frankly, I find it depressing to be a man because I don't believe there is anything positive about being one. With the rise of feminism, women have been liberated from some of the evils of men and told that they have many reasons to be proud about being a woman. The same has never happened for men and after searching vainly, I have turned to the unfortunate conclusion that the reason for this is that there is no reason to be proud about being a man.

One argument against this that I encounter is that men still have the ability to choose not to become a murderer or a rapist. Whilst this is true, it does not obscure the fact that a higher percentage of men than women choose otherwise.

Recently I had a conversation with a friend who is a rather outspoken feminist and likes to point out the short comings of men compared to women (not in a malicious way but simply as a matter of fact). I explained to her my views on the issue at which point she suggested that this might be explained by the fact that men no longer have an indentifiable role in society. She believes that a man is genetically disposed to being the protector of the family but, as society changes, this role is becoming more and more redundant and so men are unable to properly express what they are genetically determined to do resulting in extremely destructive and undesirable behaviour in a minority.

So up for debate:
Is the correlation between men and violent crime causal or is their a hidden factor at work? If there is a hidden factor then what is it?
If their is a causal correlation what is explanation for this? Is my friend's explanation a good one?
If their is a causal correlation, what should our response be to it?
Edit: I am taking the fact that their is a correlation between men and violent crime as obvious but if anybody wants to debate that point as well then feel free.

Pride in being a man hinges on harnassing your male resources and putting yourself out there. It is not helpful to view masculinity and crime in the same voice (as the confused feminist commentary on this issue attests).

My advice. Be proud to be a man. You are one after all *thumbs up*.

[Seyorni]

I see no grounds for pride in anything one has not personally accomplished. Features or qualities one is born to or with are entirely accidental.
One may be happy or thankful for one's lot in life, but unless this was arrived at by personal effort there is no grounds for pride.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

I see no grounds for pride in anything one has not personally accomplished. Features or qualities one is born to or with are entirely accidental.
One may be happy or thankful for one's lot in life, but unless this was arrived at by personal effort there is no grounds for pride.

Pride in what you are born with is justified. Pride is a feature of awareness the capacity for which you are also born with as a developmental trait. There is no sense in taking a moral position between what is acquired through effort and that of circumstance.