God and humanity (Moses, Revelation, LDS, bible, Israel)

[Ciscokid]

There's an aritcle that's floating around right now about a woman who drowned her three sons but did so because she felt that God told her to.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/21/ki....ap/index.html

What I struggle with is, for those who believe that God has and does interact with humanity.....how can you be so sure this woman is in the wrong?

God ordered [according to the Bible] Moses and the Israelites to kill heathen tribes all the time. Once you start to believe that God exists and not only that but that God has and does give humans commandments, how can you discern when a commandment is legit and when it's not?

[Faint]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

There's an aritcle that's floating around right now about a woman who drowned her three sons but did so because she felt that God told her to.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/21/ki....ap/index.html

What I struggle with is, for those who believe that God has and does interact with humanity.....how can you be so sure this woman is in the wrong?

God ordered [according to the Bible] Moses and the Israelites to kill heathen tribes all the time. Once you start to believe that God exists and not only that but that God has and does give humans commandments, how can you discern when a commandment is legit and when it's not?

An interesting topic...I look forward to the LDS response since they in particular believe in ongoing revelation.

And yes, God has a history of asking for violence. What was the guy's name in the OT who God asked to kill his own son?

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by Faint

An interesting topic...I look forward to the LDS response since they in particular believe in ongoing revelation.

And yes, God has a history of asking for violence. What was the guy's name in the OT who God asked to kill his own son?

Isaac.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

Isaac.

I suspect a modern psychiatrist would diagnose Abraham as suffering from some form of psychosis.

[Faint]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

Isaac.

Right. That was the son. Abraham was the guy I was thinking of. God told him to off his son apparently. Funny sort of test isn't it?

I wonder how many faithful Christians these days would follow God's instructions to kill their own children...you know, if He actually came to them and was all, "Hi. I'm God. Kill the kid for me. Thanks." And how would they know that God didn't tell this woman to do the same?

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I suspect a modern psychiatrist would diagnose Abraham as suffering from some form of psychosis.

Many Orthodox Christians would disagree. This is where I struggle. Why do some people trust and accept the tales in the Bible but not the ones that happen today?

[Random]

God loves, man kills. The petty God who orders death and thrives on vengeance is the imaginary one born of the human psyche twisted by hatred and madness.

[Guitar's Cry]

If God exists, and is truly giving commandments, then there must be more than one God - one that gives good commandments and one that gives evil commandments - or God has seperate personalities. (Or is bipolar.)

My personal view is that God is simply the spirit behind Life. It is more of a symbolic belief - one that is purely subjective and works for me. I like to call myself a panentheist because I equate God with the overall consiousness of the Universe, but my views on God change with the seasons - or when someone gives me a good reason to change it. For me, good and evil exist through the interaction of a deterministic existence and an emotional, conscious being.

That woman in the article was mentally ill. Her mental illness could be genetic, drug related, or the result of environmental stresses. This mental illness led to her drowning her kids, an act that would be considered evil (though we may still pity the woman, as well as her kids) due to our emotional reaction to suffering, and our instinctual objections to infanticide.

I would say that God had nothing to do with her actions. God is more of a positive force, and negativity is created - as I said before - from our emotional reactions to a deterministic Universe.

[Hope]

Originally Posted by Faint

Right. That was the son. Abraham was the guy I was thinking of. God told him to off his son apparently. Funny sort of test isn't it?

I wonder how many faithful Christians these days would follow God's instructions to kill their own children...you know, if He actually came to them and was all, "Hi. I'm God. Kill the kid for me. Thanks." And how would they know that God didn't tell this woman to do the same?

I think conveniently leaving off the ending of the Abraham/Isaac story makes it seem more twisted and barbaric than it actually was. God spared Isaac. Because of Abraham's faith. But the truly key element of the story, also overlooked, is Abraham's belief in the goodness and provision of God, despite the evidence to the contrary: "Abraham said to his young men, 'Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.' "(Genesis 22:5) Notice the "we"----Abraham was apparently pretty convinced God wasn't going to allow him to kill his son. Further evidence of this is in verses 6 and 7: "Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, 'My father!' And he said, 'Here I am, my son.' And he said, 'Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?' Abraham said, 'God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.' " And, of course, God did provide a lamb, just as Abraham told Isaac. That is extraordinary faith, and the point of the story. Now, if God had actually let Abraham kill Isaac, then I would totally understand how one could be turned off by a deity like that. It would turn me off, too. It just rubs me the wrong way a bit when Bible stories are taken out of context, or important parts are left out.

I will concede that I don't fully understand much of the violence in the Old Testament. But when acts committed by the Israelites are compared to the acts of many of the religions surrounding them (child sacrifices, anyone??) I have to be on the side of the God of the Israelites. He forbade child sacrifices, and many other despicable practices that surrounding religions endorsed. So it seems kind of silly to me to bash the God I believe in, when His track record reveals far more----infinitely more----mercy and love and compassion than many other "gods" showed towards their faithful.

So, in answer to the question----if I heard a voice telling me to kill my children, no,I wouldn't heed it, because I know my God is a God of love, and would never command me to do that. What happened to Abraham was an extraordinary, unusual case, for a man with extraordinary faith. As far as I can remember, it is the only case in the entire Bible where God gives such a command. And isn't it ironic that this same God sacrificed His own son, Jesus Christ, for all of us. From my point of view, that makes questioning His goodness and motives kind of pointless.