What makes society? (ritual, Earth, evolution, America, experience)

[Druidus]

I've been trying to understand society lately, and it's taken me on a wild ride. I've just exhaustively researched history since the 40's, especially the 60's and 70's. I've got some things to say, now. Here's part of some stuff I'm writing to externalize my thoughts:

Entry 29:

The most basic unit of society is the individual. Each individual is as an interconnect-able unit, which can, once connected to other individuals, become more complex social units. There are two other possible units available to society, and the individual units themselves voluntarily assemble themselves into these higher units.
Available, to the individual, are the social units of family and tribe. Family is the unit that most people are familiar with, it comprises the individual unit and her related units. Often, this extends past the immediate family, but not necessarily. If a relative is unknown to the individual, when they meet it may take time for that unit to be assimilated into the family.

The tribe is a lesser known concept. While family members need to be physically acquainted with each other (at least at some point) to be a social unit, a tribe’s members, for the most part, need not even know of each other’s existence. That’s not to say that tribes are comprised of faceless individuals; they are not. But it is usually impossible to know personally every individual inside the tribe, unless it is an extremely small tribe.

There are many examples of tribes, for instance, organizations that include people who are not physically related but are related because of an ideal, idea, concept, goal, or any combination thereof. But not all such organizations are tribes. Gangs are usually comprised of large enough numbers to be considered tribes, and are usually brought together without physical relations, but, nevertheless, they are considered a family unit. This is because relations within the gang are carried out as if it were a family, not a tribe.

Another example of a tribe would be nation-states. A nation-state is comprised of many individuals who assemble themselves into families and tribes, but most of them still feel a part of the national tribe, a “connectedness” with the other individuals in the nation-state. This is a direct result of the growth of ape populations. Once the point where individuals could no longer recognize all individuals within their clan was reached, the “nation-state” was created. This is theorized to be between 120-150 individuals.

Some might find it odd that a comparison between the nation-states of today, such as Great Britain, Mexico, and Denmark, and the first tribes of the distant past can exist. But, assuredly, direct comparisons can be drawn. The nation-state is comprised of a leader, his servants and family, tribes associated with him, and then finally the masses of individuals assembled into their own tribes and families. For example, the President of the United States of America is the leader of that nation (if only for a maximum of eight years), and under him are his servants (his board of appointed officials), tribes such as congress, the Senate, and the military, and then, finally, there are the individuals.

Much as we might like to think ourselves far superior to our distant ancestors who barely held a concept of society, we are not. They assembled themselves into the exact same societal archetype as we do. It may not have been democratic, but it held the same architecture. There was a leader, his servants and family, associated tribes (strategic alliances with other individuals were the first tribes), and, finally, all of the individuals who followed him but do not fit in the above categories.

We are the same, in this regard. All that has changed is the complexity of our society, and this only because of the sheer mass of the individuals within it. <To be continued>


Questions: Is there a distinction between tribe and over-tribe? Why did this system arise instead of a myriad of other possibilites?

What do you think of these ideas?

Also, the question of the thread, what makes society?

[Sunstone]

Humans are a social animal, Dru. They naturally organize themselves into various social groupings. For instance, they pair bond. They also form friendships. They also form families (nuclear and extended). They also form bands. And tribes. And alliances and confederations of tribes. There are many ways humans organize themselves socially.

One thing humans very seldom do is live as hermits, although much is made of the few who do. In actuality, though, it is very rare for humans to live as hermits.

[Sunstone]

It is perhaps worth mentioning here, Dru, that the notion of humans as social animals goes deeper than the simple statement humans organize themselves into social units. Far deeper than that. Human intelligence is designed for social living. Our brains are social brains.

It is no accident that groups of scientists working together have produced more knowledge in a few hundred years than all the lone wise people of the world produced in tens of thousands of years of working on their own.

Check out Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, Dru. If Gardner is correct, no single human alone possesses all the kinds of intelligence needed for humans to survive. It is only when humans work together, pooling their various intelligences, that they become a biologically fit species.

There is even some evidence that the increase in brain size between chimpanzees and humans was largely a result of an increase in the areas of the brain used for social living. Put more simply, we got bigger brains primarily so we could live in bigger groups.

Just some thoughts for you to mull over.

[retrorich]

Society is two or more people seeking reasons to hate one another.

[arthra]

Druidus wrote:

"The most basic unit of society is the individual."

I disgree with this...to me, the basic unit of society is the family.

How can the individual develope without the family?...

or we could say yes the individual could reach chronological adulthood but without a family, he/she would probably have a lot of deficits in socialization and many problems.

A society implies social relationships and this implies to me a family.

There are of course many types of families in societies.

With a strong family as model we can move on to the tribe or the city and hence to the nation and eventually to a world commonwealth. Having a successful world commonwealth representing humanity is probably one of our greatest challenges today as only in the context of a world society can we meet issues such as war and pollution and economic chaos.

- Art

[Sunstone]

What constitutes a family?

[arthra]

I think it's an excellent question what constitutes a "family" and one I had to think about before answering...

To me we as human beings are so much more than what we can measure but let me say for the sake of discussion that our physical, emotyional and spiritual being is like a blank slate and what we receive or what impresses itself on us leaves it's impressions.

SO the first "family" is in the womb ...the relationship between the foetus and baby and mother...this is the primary relationship and the beginning of our socialization process.. after this primary relationship you have the father or surogate "parents"...and radiating outward the extended family and all this interfacing and experience builds the personality and individuality.

- Art

So we are constantly taking in this stimuli and processing it through us and developing all the time as long as life lasts on the earth...

Human society is evolving constantly and will always develope...

The challenge of course for our specie is achieving a balance with our environment and inculcating principles and relationships that build rather than destroy.

The identity of who we really are and consciousness itself is still a mystery because our potential cannot be limited or easily predicted .

- Art

[Druidus]

Interesting response, about the family, but I cannot agree.

Individuals are the basic building blocks of society. Families are a response to evolutionary pressures. Without families, culture, or knowledge, cannot be passed from one generation to the next. Families are integral to society, yes, but without the individuals who amass the knowledge that they pass on to the next generation, they would be useless from a societal stand-point. The only reason we do not raise children communally, in a tribe system as opposed to a family one, is because we take pleasure in raising our youths, also an evolutionary response. If you do not want to raise your children, why would you? Pleasure creates this reason for the being to raise a new generation.

Yes, without families society as we know it cannot exist (a tribe based system can be imagined, but even then the children's creches would be families, for all intensive purposes, in much the same way as gangs are), but just because something is integral to a process does not mean that it is the most basic building block.

[arthra]

So Druidus..

Just curious...

Are you thinking having your own family someday?

- Art

[Druidus]

Hopefully, yes. At least one son. (Yeah, I feel I'd want a son to identify with more easily)

I'd name him Peter, to be a fourth generation Peter.